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I just got a nid army up to speed and wand to make sure I am reading the rules right.

So, let me get this straight.

I attach a Tyranid Prime to a monstrous creature (so long as his rules don't say he always goes on his own) and that unit can now get cover saves form infantry. So my Trygon can get a save from termagants?

That is sweet ass sweet if accurate. Am I missing anything?

Reecius wrote:I just got a nid army up to speed and wand to make sure I am reading the rules right.

So, let me get this straight.

I attach a Tyranid Prime to a monstrous creature (so long as his rules don't say he always goes on his own) and that unit can now get cover saves form infantry. So my Trygon can get a save from termagants?

That is sweet ass sweet if accurate. Am I missing anything?

How many models are in a Trygon unit? Think about that one.

Uno.

Does it only work with the Carnifex?

Reecius wrote:Uno.

Does it only work with the Carnifex?

Correctomundo.

The rules say IC's cannot join units that ALWAYS AND FOREVER WITH NO EXCEPTIONS EVER consist of ONE AND ONLY ONE TWO IS TOO MANY FIVE IS RIGHT OUT models.

A Carnifex is 1-3 models, so a single Fex can be joined by a Prime. A Trygon is always 1 model, so cannot.

The reason the Fex gets to benefit from the cover save is because the rules for units say that if 50% or more of the unit has a cover save, the entire unit uses it, while if less than 50% has no cover save, the unit doesn't get it.

Therefore, if you shoot at a Fex+Prime though Gaunts, the Prime has a cover save (because of the rule saying if you shoot through a unit you grant a cover save), while the fex does not (because it is an MC).

Therefore, 50% of the unit has a cover save, so the whole unit gets to use it.

Ah, thank you kindly my good shark.

There is one more "exception".

A Hive Tyrant can't be joined by an IC, but Tyrant Guard Brood can, and Tyrant Brood can join the Hive Tyrant. Yes, defeats the point in the OP, since the Hive Tyrant would already get the cover save benefits from the Tyrant Guard, but there it is!

It doesn't work. The Carnifex is still a Monstrous Creature and thus requires at least 50% of the model to be obscured. Sorry, no easter eggs.

Incorrect, it requires 50% to receive a cover save on its own merits, if half the unit has a cover save the entire unit benefits.

There is no allowance in the rules for part of a unit having a cover save without the rest of the unit as well.

Nurglitch wrote:It doesn't work. The Carnifex is still a Monstrous Creature and thus requires at least 50% of the model to be obscured. Sorry, no easter eggs.

Incorrect, cover saves are determined on a UNIT basis. While the MC would not contribute towards determining whether the unit receives a cover save unless it is 50% obscured, the non-MC WOULD by simply being behind a unit as normal. If you have 1 MC and 1 Non-MC which counts as in cover, 50% of the unit counts as in cover and therefore the ENTIRE unit recieves a cover save.

It;s kind of the point of Tyrant guard, you know....

No, the point of Tyrant Guard is to act as a meat-shield, not to make the Hive Tyrant magically invisible.

You may want to re-read the Monstrous Creature rules; they're an exception to the usual unit/cover interaction.

They are an exception to a single model receiving a cover save, not a unit.

You're wrong, im sorry.

Nurglitch wrote:No, the point of Tyrant Guard is to act as a meat-shield, not to make the Hive Tyrant magically invisible.

You may want to re-read the Monstrous Creature rules; they're an exception to the usual unit/cover interaction.

And you may want to re-read the rules for units.

See, I can be passive-aggressive too.

The rules for units make it clear that if 50% of the unit has a cover save, EVERYONE benefits, not "EVERYONE except the ones Nurglitch doesn't want."

Nurglitch wrote:No, the point of Tyrant Guard is to act as a meat-shield, not to make the Hive Tyrant magically invisible.

You may want to re-read the Monstrous Creature rules; they're an exception to the usual unit/cover interaction.

We've had this debate for several pages in a recent thread, but let me paint the two ways to come to a conclusion (both conclusions are the same)

1. Read the rules for cover saves on page 22, right column, second paragraph.
2. Follow the long and arduous path Monstrous Characters are treated like vehicles > Vehicles receive cover saves when 50% or more are covered, but how do the rules work for squads? > squads of vehicles receive cover save if half the squad or more are in cover after you've worked out cover for all of them individually.

Nurglitch wrote:No, the point of Tyrant Guard is to act as a meat-shield, not to make the Hive Tyrant magically invisible.

You may want to re-read the Monstrous Creature rules; they're an exception to the usual unit/cover interaction.

No, they are not.
They are an exception for how you determine if the MC gets a cover save. Normally an MC is by himself, or with other MCs, so this isnt an issue. I suggest you reread the rules for cover, and take a careful note of how it specifies a UNIT recieves a cover save.

IF you want to deny a cover save to part of a unit you must find a rule to do so (hint: the MC cover rule *does not* do this)

This was covered in depth not so long ago. And since everyone seems more interested in beating their chests and insisting that everyone else re-read the rules rather than actually discussing the issue, I think we're done here.