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Hello, all. As I plan a heavily-themed Space Marine force, I've been wondering about Terminators. Due to the theme of my army, a Mayan/Aztec-inspired chapter of fierce jungle warriors, it would be really cool to have some CC-Terminators armed with "Jaguar Claws" and "Thunder-Macahuitls." This would also give my army some much-needed assault punch, as right now it mostly consists of Scouts and Sternguard. However, the fluff of my army would also preclude them from using Land Raiders to drive around said Terminators, since part of their backstory is a preference for light, fast vehicles, brought about by supply-chain problems that prevent them from fielding anything heavier than a Thunderfire cannon, anyway.

So, game-wise, my question is this: can Assault Terminators be used at all effectively without riding in a Land Raider, and if so, how? If my army is full of Homing Beacons (from all those Scouts), is it just a matter of intelligent pinpoint Deep-Striking and then waiting a turn until I can charge in? It would be nice if SM Termies were able to shoot AND have non-powerfist melee weapons, but I guess only Chaos is smart enough to let them mix-and-match equipment like that. Any suggestions, or do Assault Termies pretty much need that Land Raider to be usable?

I would say that the most competitive way to field Assault Terminators is with a Land Raider, so you're at a disadvantage based on your fluff.

That said, I'm a big fan of doing things because they're cool even if its not optimal. The key is to try and make your unit as optimal as possible within your fluff guidelines.

My first thought is not to try and deepstrike them. You can't assault when you land and being bunched up is just asking for pie plate spamming. Plus you can't be sure when they will arrive.

I think that fielding them on the table from turn one and move + run is the best option. Put them on your front lines and trust in their armor to save them. Stick a squad of Scouts or Sternguard behind them and enjoy the mobile 4+ cover save. Against armies that you know will be assaulting you (Orks, Chaos, Tyranids etc) you can always hold them back as a counter-assault force if you choose, but basically you're best off by rushing them forward (as fast as you're able to without a transport) and use the rest of your army to support their charge. A big bonus would be to use other units to open up transports and assault the guys inside with your Terminators, instead of having them waste their fancy weapons banging at the back door of a Rhino.

minigun762 wrote:
I think that fielding them on the table from turn one and move + run is the best option. Put them on your front lines and trust in their armor to save them. Stick a squad of Scouts or Sternguard behind them and enjoy the mobile 4+ cover save. Against armies that you know will be assaulting you (Orks, Chaos, Tyranids etc) you can always hold them back as a counter-assault force if you choose, but basically you're best off by rushing them forward (as fast as you're able to without a transport) and use the rest of your army to support their charge. A big bonus would be to use other units to open up transports and assault the guys inside with your Terminators, instead of having them waste their fancy weapons banging at the back door of a Rhino.

Hmm... This is actually a pretty compelling idea, thank you. I wonder if footslogging Assault Terminators would be such an unusual sight on the board that my opponent would be psyched out and not be able to resist shooting at them, instead of at the Infiltrating Scouts and Drop-Podding Sternguard that are even closer and popping their transports with melta. Using a wall of Termies as mobile cover is also an unusual but interesting tactic, though it occurs to me that any weapon a cover save would be necessary for is probably going to be directed against the Termies, not the squad behind them. I don't have my codex on me, so I can't check, but do Storm Shields provide their Inv. against shooting, or is it just in CC?

If I were to go the "march up the board" route, how big a squad would be needed? Should I go balls-out and have a unit of 10, or would that be too big a pointsink for a unit that's so vulnerable?

1) Don't rely on your opponent playing badly, sometimes you luck out but its bad to assume it happens. That being said, providing your opponent with a variety of targets that are all a threat does make the job harder of what to focus on and increase the chances that they choose incorrectly.

2) As for what weapons will be directed were, it all depends. I think a person would be dumb to fire a Battle Cannon at the Terminators (due to the 2+ save) and instead I'd fire it at your Sternguard or Scouts. If those same Sternguard or Scouts now have a 4+ cover save, it helps protect them longer. Its not likely to make a huge difference but an extra save is an extra save and in this case, its free. Its also less of a concern with your units shooting through the Terminators since the standard weapons for Sternguard and Scouts all have poor AP values anyway, so the target is likely to be using an armor save anyway.

3) The new rules is for it to provide the save against both shooting and assault.

4) As for how many Terminators to use, It depends on how the rest of your army, how many points you can spare etc etc but my gut feeling is that 7-8 would be the best overall amount. Unlike Tac Terminators, there is no value in going up 10 guys but 5 guys might not be enough bodies to absorb the opponent's shooting.

Add Shrike with them. That gives all your termies fleet, and you can infiltrate 10 of them.

For example that can help you is that My chapter have bold people so they teleport in to the most brutal areas and the kill as many as they can.
This has actually allowed me to win the game. As my forces have elements of assualt as we come in from everywhere and make the enemy get out of cover.

I played against Shrike with 3 units of fleeting terminators with one of them infiltrating. Ouch that really hurt.

Fleeting my Terminators never even occurred to me, thanks! I was actually planning a version of this list that used counts-as Shrike, to use the classic "1st Assault Scouts" strategy. Since the Shrike idea was the higher-points-level version, a horde of Fleet Terminators could be possible. The lower-point version is more shooty and uses more drop-podding Sternguard, with Kantor to make them scoring, but perhaps over the 1500pt. level I should switch to Shrike and really go all out with the speedy assaults. Thank you all for your suggestions; this should turn out to be a really fun army to play!

Well, be careful in running infiltrating termies w/ Shrike in really RAW places...
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I've had some experiences with a large (7-10 man) squad of slogging termies.
It's really hit or miss. It's not always about making points back and more to do with a unit being able to perform a role you want them to.

I run a biker list but included the termies for several reasons:
1. First turn army wide cover saves via Conga Line.
2. Counter Charge element.
3. Back field clearance.
4. Deterrent to get close to me.

So far they have been fine at points 1 and 3...which is decent in my book but not really for the price. I still role with them because it's just so easy to throw them in.

I would try not to DS larger squads. I only tempt it when Dawn of War gets played and even then it's not ideal to put them in reserve to DS in.

Without the Land Raider they will probably spend most of the game running behind the target but never reaching it. If you verse a high mobile and completely mech army like DE or Eldar you can basically just leave them in the deployment zone.

While they're not as good you just have to use other things to help them get into combat. Thunderfire Cannon, which I haven't used, might be alright with it's slowing ammo.

As for Deep Striking, I'd keep the unit at around 6. For the Drop Pod idea you could give them beacons so the Termies land on target. They'd have to arrive on the turn after though. Shrike idea is definitely good and very unexpected as well for anyone versing it.

Why, beyond the storm shields are you so hot for CC Termies? Seems to me that Tactical Terminators would work very well for you. Arm them with cyclones or assault cannons and give yourself some more anti-tank, along with everything else they bring...

Foot slogging termies hate plasmacannons, be careful. You do NOT want to have an enemy executioner found wanting.

Why are slogging termies bunching up Jaon?
I conga line them in a wide net.. covers a good portion of the board and plasma cannons will get at most 2 models on good scatters.

Then there's the 3++ to deal with, or 4+cover for the Tactical Termies.

Warprat, was that for me?
I go for the CC termies because my bike list does not have that combat element, they are not all Hamminators and in addition, they need to run to keep up with roles 2 and 4.

So running means no shooting and there is that drop in durability and the lack of more initiative/increased attacks(LCs) from the Tactical Termies.

Then there's also the issue of I have suitable models to run the large Ass Termy squad and I don't have enough points for the more desirable 10 man Tac Termies with 2 cyclones. With the points issues I can only fit in 9 to 10 termies (aka not enough points for cyclones anyway).

If you are taking light fast vehicles like Rhinos/Razorbacks then having your terminators on foot is less of an issue. I actually dislike running my terminators in a Land Raider. I prefer having a full squad of 10 TH/SS termies marching across the table behind a wall of Rhinos/Razorbacks. The other option for foot slogging your termies is to take a Librarian in TDA w/SS and give him GoI. Either way I think you'll do well, just don't expect your terminators to get to the enemy at full strength, I usually lost 3-6 by the time I got across the table to combat. This is actually less of an issue than you would think because if your enemy has killed 6 TH/SS termies then he has probably wasted the majority of his armies shooting on them and has subsequently ignored the rest of your army which is now knocking on his front door relatively unscathed. Of course YMMV but I have never found foot slogging my terminators to be an issue. It is easier to destroy or immobilize a LR Turn1/2 than it is to kill 10 TH/SS terminators in 3 turns IMHO.

obvectively, I don't see a problem with foot-slogging termies. Most of the stuff that's real good against termies doesn't have that long of a range, so that you're starting out at range isn't all that bad of a thing. As well, land raiders give you an extra 6" of charge, but the terminators can still run, making them nearly as fast as driving in a raider. I don't think mobility is going to be any more of a problem really. Plus, if you're bringing storm shields, then I can't imagine taking ALL that many casualties before you get close in.

The whole point of termies, though, is that they're great KP denial, and have this nasty tendency to be really difficult to dislodge from objectives late game. Both of these are just as well done on foot as they are through other means, assuming that you spend the points you would have spent on a land raider on more terminators.

If you want to run foot termies, try them out. You can always give them a transport or deepstrike them later.

I almost always run them in a land raider with an IC that can help them(like a Chaplin) first turn go all out..second go all out get out and assault. Having the person I'm playing worrying about this armor 14 tank right in their face.