One Small Free Market Step for a Nation, One Giant Wait on an Unemployment Line for Half a Million

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**WarOne**

In a move designed to bolster a sagging Cuban economy, the country is going to fire at least 1 in 5 government workers and tell them to go find some economy prosperity in an expanding free market system hampered by decades of command-control mismanagement and a suffocating U.S. embargo.

Good luck.

Cuba has announced radical plans to lay off huge numbers of state employees, to help revive the communist country's struggling economy.

The Cuban labour federation said more than a million workers would lose their jobs - half of them by March next year.

Those laid off will be encouraged to become self-employed or join new private enterprises, on which some of the current restrictions will be eased.

Analysts say it is biggest private sector shift since the 1959 revolution.

Cuba's communist government currently controls almost all aspects of the country's economy and employs about 85% of the official workforce, which is put at 5.1 million people.

As many as one-in-five of all workers could lose their jobs.

"Our state cannot and should not continue maintaining companies, productive entities, services and budgeted sectors with bloated payrolls and losses that hurt the economy," the labour federation said in a statement.

"Job options will be increased and broadened with new forms of non-state employment, among them leasing land, co-operatives, and self-employment, absorbing hundreds of thousands of workers in the coming years," the statement added.

Free enterprise?

To create jobs for the redundant workers, strict rules limiting private enterprise will be relaxed and many more licenses will be issued for people to become self-employed.

Private businesses will be allowed to employ staff for the first time.

President Raul Castro has said the state's role in the economy must shrink The self-employed will have access to social security and will be able to open bank accounts and even borrow money to expand their businesses.

They will also have to pay tax on their profits and for each person they employ, something which could dramatically boost the government's income.

And they will be able to negotiate contracts to provide services to government departments.

A minority of Cuban workers already work for themselves, for example as hairdressers and taxi-drivers, or running small family restaurants.

There is also a thriving black economy, with many people working independently without proper permission from the state.

The BBC's Fernando Ravsberg in Havana says salaries in Cuba's state sector are so low that many employees could be better off working for themselves.

But he says not everyone has the skills and initiative necessary to be self-employed.

He adds that the government plan does not foresee any kind of advice being offered to people seeking to set up their own businesses.

Economic crisis

President Raul Castro outlined some of the changes in a speech in August, saying the state's role in the economy had to be reduced.

"We have to end forever the notion that Cuba is the only country in the world where you can live without working," he said.

Cuba's state-run economy has been gripped by a severe crisis in the past two years that has forced it to cut imports.

It has suffered from a fall in the price for its main export, nickel, as well as a decline in tourism.

Growth has also been hampered by the 48-year US trade embargo.

Mr Castro became Cuba's leader when his brother, Fidel Castro, stepped aside because of ill-health in 2006.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11291267

**Frazzled**

Sounds like what needs to be done here, except substitute 4 out of 5 for 1 out of 5.

**Gailbraithe**

Frazzled wrote:Sounds like what needs to be done here, except substitute 4 out of 5 for 1 out of 5.

There are roughly 19 million full-time equivalent employees of the United States governments, including federal, state, and local. There are roughly 15 million unemployed workers in America. 4/5ths of 19 million is about 15 million. Which means that eliminating 4 out of 5 government workers in America would literally instantly double the unemployment rate. Which means instead of 5 people seeking employment for every available job, there would be 10.

You want to, I don't know, maybe think that one over for a bit, give it a second thought? Because honestly, that doesn't sound like what needs to be done here at all. That sounds like it would be disastrous. I guess it kind of depends on what your goals are though.

**Frazzled**

Gailbraithe wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Sounds like what needs to be done here, except substitute 4 out of 5 for 1 out of 5.

There are roughly 19 million full-time equivalent employees of the United States governments, including federal, state, and local. There are roughly 15 million unemployed workers in America. 4/5ths of 19 million is about 15 million. Which means that eliminating 4 out of 5 government workers in America would literally instantly double the unemployment rate. Which means instead of 5 people seeking employment for every available job, there would be 10.

You want to, I don't know, maybe think that one over for a bit, give it a second thought? Because honestly, that doesn't sound like what needs to be done here at all. That sounds like it would be disastrous. I guess it kind of depends on what your goals are though.

You're right, on reconsideration 4.5 out of 5 federal non military positions need to go. Now. Actually overnight. Change the locks.

**Gailbraithe**

Frazzled wrote:
Gailbraithe wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Sounds like what needs to be done here, except substitute 4 out of 5 for 1 out of 5.

There are roughly 19 million full-time equivalent employees of the United States governments, including federal, state, and local. There are roughly 15 million unemployed workers in America. 4/5ths of 19 million is about 15 million. Which means that eliminating 4 out of 5 government workers in America would literally instantly double the unemployment rate. Which means instead of 5 people seeking employment for every available job, there would be 10.

You're right, on reconsideration 4.5 out of 5 federal non military positions need to go. Now. Actually overnight. Change the locks.

That's more reasonable. That would create 2.4 million new unemployed workers, and increase the unemployment rate to 11.5%, which is certainly better than your first plan to push it to 20%. Still seems like a step in the wrong direction in a recession. Plus, you now are expecting 10% of the federal workforce to do 100% of the federal workload.

And what does the federal workforce do, exactly?

Well, most federal workers work for the post office. That's the single largest group of civilian federal employees, at 768 thousand workers. Of which you've just fired 691 thousand. And Christmas is right around the corner. Not to mention the fact that you've just made ordering miniatures from the UK significantly more difficult and expensive. So right off the bat I am very unhappy with this idea.

Next up is "national defense and international relations." So that's everything from paper shufflers at the pentagon to embassy staff, and there are 699 thousand of these people. While I doubt you could really trim 621 thousand of them (4.5/5, aka 9/10, aka 90%), I'm sure there is a lot that could be cut out of here, especially after Bush. Other areas that will be hit hard are health services, law enforcement, and one of my favorites: air transportation.

**Frazzled**

That's more reasonable. That would create 2.4 million new unemployed workers, and increase the unemployment rate to 11.5%, which is certainly better than your first plan to push it to 20%.
****Balance the budget and lower taxes, its win win!

Still seems like a step in the wrong direction in a recession.
****As noted, balance the budget and lower taxes. If freaking Germany can get its act together, lower taxes and jump start its economy, we can!

Plus, you now are expecting 10% of the federal workforce to do 100% of the federal workload.
***Hey I am being nice.

And what does the federal workforce do, exactly?
Well, most federal workers work for the post office. That's the single largest group of civilian federal employees, at 768 thousand workers. Of which you've just fired 691 thousand. And Christmas is right around the corner. Not to mention the fact that you've just made ordering miniatures from the UK significantly more difficult and expensive. So right off the bat I am very unhappy with this idea.
***Make the post office truly private. If it dies it dies. Its freaking irrelevant now.

Next up is "national defense and international relations." So that's everything from paper shufflers at the pentagon to embassy staff, and there are 699 thousand of these people. While I doubt you could really trim 621 thousand of them (4.5/5, aka 9/10, aka 90%), I'm sure there is a lot that could be cut out of here, especially after Bush. Other areas that will be hit hard are health services, law enforcement, and one of my favorites: air transportation.
***Outside of active duty military-just watch me. Give me 1% of the total savings as a bonus, and 3 months. Just call me neutron Frazzled.

**Gailbraithe**

Frazzled wrote:
That's more reasonable. That would create 2.4 million new unemployed workers, and increase the unemployment rate to 11.5%, which is certainly better than your first plan to push it to 20%.

Balance the budget and lower taxes, its win win!

Not really, I'm pretty sure you blew any money you saved by laying off all those people when you hired every locksmith in America, at peak rates I'm sure (no notice, night call), to change all those locks.

As noted, balance the budget and lower taxes. If freaking Germany can get its act together, lower taxes and jump start its economy, we can!

Germany lowered its highest tax rate from 53% to 42%, which is still higher than our tax rate -- and that's not even considering the German VAT, which they recently increased from 16% to 19%.

Make the post office truly private. If it dies it dies. Its freaking irrelevant now.

There are countless problems with that. The Post Office is in the constitution, and would require a constitutional amendment to make it private. There is no way that the rural poor would ever be able to afford the cost of post service to their areas if it were not subsidized. Private parcel delivery companies, such as UPS and Fed/Ex, rely on the USPS to complete delivery to remote rural locations (UPS doesn't deliver to little towns out on the ice in Alaska, UPS delivers to Juneo and lets the Post Office take it the last 600 miles of empty wastes). Postal service is relied on by millions for bill-paying, mail-in ballot voting, and countless other needs, so it's hardly irrelevant.

Outside of active duty military-just watch me. Give me 1% of the total savings as a bonus, and 3 months. Just call me neutron Frazzled.

There won't be any savings. You'll have crippled the ability of society to function, and the economic devastation you'll trigger will likely so ravage the tax base that savings will never be materialized. You might as well just fire everyone, it'll have the exact same effect.

**Frazzled**

That's more reasonable. That would create 2.4 million new unemployed workers, and increase the unemployment rate to 11.5%, which is certainly better than your first plan to push it to 20%.
Balance the budget and lower taxes, its win win!

Not really, I'm pretty sure you blew any money you saved by laying off all those people when you hired every locksmith in America, at peak rates I'm sure (no notice, night call), to change all those locks.
***Nah I am not really worried about exgovernment employees rampaging gangsta style. With the mandatory coffee breaks and committee meetings, it would be years before they resolved to do...anything.
On the positive if they did riot we could legitimately ship them to some place. Maybe a very large island. Does anyone know of a really large island anywhere?

Germany lowered its highest tax rate from 53% to 42%, which is still higher than our tax rate -- and that's not even considering the German VAT, which they recently increased from 16% to 19%.
***You're not including local and fees, but I don't want to get this into a tax debate.

There are countless problems with that. The Post Office is in the constitution, and would require a constitutional amendment to make it private. There is no way that the rural poor would ever be able to afford the cost of post service to their areas if it were not subsidized. Private parcel delivery companies, such as UPS and Fed/Ex, rely on the USPS to complete delivery to remote rural locations (UPS doesn't deliver to little towns out on the ice in Alaska, UPS delivers to Juneo and lets the Post Office take it the last 600 miles of empty wastes). Postal service is relied on by millions for bill-paying, mail-in ballot voting, and countless other needs, so it's hardly irrelevant.
***No just don't fund it. It ain't relied on by anyone for jack that can't be done more efficiently and cheaply.

There won't be any savings. You'll have crippled the ability of society to function, and the economic devastation you'll trigger will likely so ravage the tax base that savings will never be materialized. You might as well just fire everyone, it'll have the exact same effect.
***Not quite, just returning to the early 1900s. I say we try it.

**Kilkrazy**

There is a serious error in your plan, Frazzled.

Who will be left to hold the line against Haggis?

**Frazzled**

Kilkrazy wrote:There is a serious error in your plan, Frazzled.

Who will be left to hold the line against Haggis?

Gross Gott! What have I done?

Maybe its not too late. Unleash the emergency weiner dog reserves, to hold the line until more red tape can be spun. quickly! QUICKLY!!!!

**WarOne**

Frazzled wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:There is a serious error in your plan, Frazzled.

Who will be left to hold the line against Haggis?

Gross Gott! What have I done?

Maybe its not too late. Unleash the emergency weiner dog reserves, to hold the line until more red tape can be spun. quickly! QUICKLY!!!!

Wait...we need to employ AWESOME SPIDER to make the new tape! That way, we won't have to sacrifice as many weiner reserves if we used normal silk spinning spiders!

**Gailbraithe**

Frazzled wrote:Nah I am not really worried about exgovernment employees rampaging gangsta style. With the mandatory coffee breaks and committee meetings, it would be years before they resolved to do...anything.

Dude, you just fired 790 thousands of the people who made "going postal" synonymous with firing-induced killing sprees. Again, think this though.

Not quite, just returning to the early 1900s. I say we try it.

Awesome, because here I was thinking how it sucked that I was born a century too late to participate in the violent phase of the labor movement. But if we set the clock back to the early 1900s, then we can have a whole new worker's movement. We'll do it right this time, French Revolution style. Guillotines on Wall Street. Viva la revolution.

**Frazzled**

Gailbraithe wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Nah I am not really worried about exgovernment employees rampaging gangsta style. With the mandatory coffee breaks and committee meetings, it would be years before they resolved to do...anything.

Dude, you just fired 790 thousands of the people who made "going postal" synonymous with firing-induced killing sprees. Again, think this though.
***No no they fired all the good employees way back.

Not quite, just returning to the early 1900s. I say we try it.

Awesome, because here I was thinking how it sucked that I was born a century too late to participate in the violent phase of the labor movement. But if we set the clock back to the early 1900s, then we can have a whole new worker's movement. We'll do it right this time, French Revolution style. Guillotines on Wall Street. Viva la revolution.

***No just government. Eisenhower warned us of the military industrial complex. He had no idea of the real beast out there.

**Kilkrazy**

If the US government would let up on the sanctions, the tourist and cigar industries would boom.

From what I hear, Cuba has a great climate, fertile soils, nice beaches and knockout women.

**Frazzled**

WarOne wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:There is a serious error in your plan, Frazzled.

Who will be left to hold the line against Haggis?

Gross Gott! What have I done?

Maybe its not too late. Unleash the emergency weiner dog reserves, to hold the line until more red tape can be spun. quickly! QUICKLY!!!!

Wait...we need to employ AWESOME SPIDER to make the new tape! That way, we won't have to sacrifice as many weiner reserves if we used normal silk spinning spiders!

Good idea, but we should probably keep Aweomse Spider in reserve in case Leichtenstein makes a move. Alternatively, Cthulu Calamari could transport AA to offshore Europe. Awesome Spider could then spin a paraglider and invade Leichtenstein Rambo style. They'd never see it coming. After all, Awesome Spider is almost out of rebel scum.

**Kilkrazy**

Liechtenstein is one of only two doubly landlocked countries in the world.

**Frazzled**

Kilkrazy wrote:Liechtenstein is one of only two doubly landlocked countries in the world.

Thats why this mission could only be entrusted to the Purified Awesomeness that is Awesome Spider.

**Gailbraithe**

Kilkrazy wrote:Liechtenstein is one of only two doubly landlocked countries in the world.

**Orkeosaurus**

This is now an Xzibit thread.

**KingCracker**

I always thought Xzibit was hilarious. I like that guy. We are friends now.

**WarOne**

KingCracker wrote:I always thought Xzibit was hilarious. I like that guy. We are friends now.

Sigh...can't resist.

**Orkeosaurus**

**Grignard**

Frazzled wrote:Sounds like what needs to be done here, except substitute 4 out of 5 for 1 out of 5.

I don't think what a small, communist, Caribbean nation does has much bearing on our nation.

I don't think that suddenly eliminating the people that keep our borders safe, keep our air and water clean, collect the taxes, maintain public order, protect us from disease, or do all the things we take for granted every day a good idea at all. I don't think putting a profit motive on those things through privatization is a good idea either.

**Frazzled**

Grignard wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Sounds like what needs to be done here, except substitute 4 out of 5 for 1 out of 5.

I don't think what a small, communist, Caribbean nation does has much bearing on our nation.

I don't think that suddenly eliminating the people that keep our borders safe, keep our air and water clean, collect the taxes, maintain public order, protect us from disease, or do all the things we take for granted every day a good idea at all. I don't think putting a profit motive on those things through privatization is a good idea either.

***Borders already open. They are playing catch and release inside the states now. Its almost irrelevant.
***Keep air and water clean, protect us from disease? Seriously? Thats local
***collect the taxes, no I want them gone especially. Jesus welcomed the tax collector, not me.

***Maintain public order-thats local.

Anything else I "benefit" from?

**Grignard**

Frazzled wrote:
Grignard wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Sounds like what needs to be done here, except substitute 4 out of 5 for 1 out of 5.

I don't think what a small, communist, Caribbean nation does has much bearing on our nation.

I don't think that suddenly eliminating the people that keep our borders safe, keep our air and water clean, collect the taxes, maintain public order, protect us from disease, or do all the things we take for granted every day a good idea at all. I don't think putting a profit motive on those things through privatization is a good idea either.

***Borders already open. They are playing catch and release inside the states now. Its almost irrelevant.
***Keep air and water clean, protect us from disease? Seriously? Thats local
***collect the taxes, no I want them gone especially. Jesus welcomed the tax collector, not me.
***Maintain public order-thats local.

Anything else I "benefit" from?

Well, we supposedly have a border patrol that is Federal. Whether or not it is effective is irrelevant, because it doesn't make sense to me when people say they want less government, but then want to increase the amount of security along our southern border, which inevitably is going to cost money.

I'm state, and I am keeping our air and water clean. Ultimately I have to answer to EPA, and some of our funding comes directly from EPA. We're audited by the EPA, which means regardless of what they're doing in the laboratory, they're responsible for watching us to make sure we're doing our jobs. EPA was also responsible for what is generally referred to as superfund, which involves cleaning up nightmares like Love Canal. I'm see the results from this stuff at the state, federal, and local level every day. I can assure you that you're getting something for your money, even if it isn't always perfect. The CDC is a pretty vital branch of government in my mind as well.

Someone has to collect taxes and enforce tax laws. Government requires money to operate, and that requires tax collection. Liberals don't like tax collectors, conservatives don't like tax collectors, no one likes taxes period. You have to have them though.

Maintaining public order occurs at the Federal level as well as local. FBI comes immediately to mind. The FCC is who regulates radio transmissions so that there is some sort of order as to what frequencies go where. Homeland security is the newest edition to that list.

Another thing about the government is the same thing about "evil corporations". They are composed of normal, working people who have families and need jobs, and would be in a world of hurt without them.

**Frazzled**

Well, we supposedly have a border patrol that is Federal. Whether or not it is effective is irrelevant, because it doesn't make sense to me when people say they want less government, but then want to increase the amount of security along our southern border, which inevitably is going to cost money.
***Ok I’ll give on the border patrol, at least 25 years ago when it worked.

I'm state, and I am keeping our air and water clean. Ultimately I have to answer to EPA, and some of our funding comes directly from EPA. We're audited by the EPA, which means regardless of what they're doing in the laboratory, they're responsible for watching us to make sure we're doing our jobs. EPA was also responsible for what is generally referred to as superfund, which involves cleaning up nightmares like Love Canal. I'm see the results from this stuff at the state, federal, and local level every day. I can assure you that you're getting something for your money, even if it isn't always perfect.
***No, you can’t . The EPA has gone beyond its mandate and is attempting to regulate items that could destroy our economy. Again, it doesn’t help me. I’ll take local control thank you, just like California has its own more stringent controls. Next.

The CDC is a pretty vital branch of government in my mind as well.
***I’ll give on that as well. So far we’ve accounted for, what 40,000 federal employees including the border patrol?

Someone has to collect taxes and enforce tax laws. Government requires money to operate, and that requires tax collection. Liberals don't like tax collectors, conservatives don't like tax collectors, no one likes taxes period. You have to have them though.
****You can do more with less. Just like every freaking bodyelse has to do right now.

Maintaining public order occurs at the Federal level as well as local.
They aren’t maintaining order, they FBI comes immediately to mind.
***I’ll give on the FBI, but they can do more with less also.

The FCC is who regulates radio transmissions
***Correction, the FCC maintains the current oligopoly. Again, even granting you that, you need like 7 people including the secretary for that. Next.

so that there is some sort of order as to what frequencies go where. Homeland security is the newest edition to that list.
***Homeland Security is bureaucratic nightmare and boondoggle. Its hasn’t been exactly stellar at doing anything (cough Katrina cough underwear bomber). FBI I’ll give, CIA I’ll give, HS: FIRE ALL OF THEM.

Another thing about the government is the same thing about "evil corporations". They are composed of normal, working people who have families and need jobs, and would be in a world of hurt without them.
***And most of them should be doing something else.

**Grignard**

Ok, I'm not going to argue this one because I can't be unbiased, because my ability to make a living is on the line.

**Frazzled**

Grignard wrote:Ok, I'm not going to argue this one because I can't be unbiased, because my ability to make a living is on the line.

And I am a closet libertarian. We can agree to disagree.

**ShumaGorath**

Frazzled wrote:Sounds like what needs to be done here, except substitute 4 out of 5 for 1 out of 5.

Sounds like a mod is trolling again.

**Frazzled**

ShumaGorath wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Sounds like what needs to be done here, except substitute 4 out of 5 for 1 out of 5.

Sounds like a mod is trolling again.

Then you should get your hearing checked.