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Do models disembarking out of a vehicle need to take a difficult terrain test if they are deploying into terrain? The BRB pg 67 states " When the unit disembarks, each model is deployed within 2" of one of the vehicle’s access points, and within unit coherency" Are they still subject to the test, so potentialy they may only be able to deploy 1" (and possibly not deploy at all if you do not have the space) if you were to roll snake eyes on the test.

I have had two people tell me that you must. I on the other hand say no test is needed. What say you.??

No. The rules for disembarking are plainly spelled out and nowhere do the rules for Difficult Terrain override them.

Deploy them within 2 inches, like the rules say to do.

Camarodragon wrote:Do models disembarking out of a vehicle need to take a difficult terrain test if they are deploying into terrain? The BRB pg 67 states " When the unit disembarks, each model is deployed within 2" of one of the vehicle’s access points, and within unit coherency" Are they still subject to the test, so potentialy they may only be able to deploy 1" (and possibly not deploy at all if you do not have the space) if you were to roll snake eyes on the test.

I have had two people tell me that you must. I on the other hand say no test is needed. What say you.??

I had someone tell me something like this the other day too. Someone actually said I have to take a DANGEROUS Terrain test for any models deploying from a transport into difficult terrain. Has anybody heard of that?

There is no way you need to take a Difficult terrain test to disembark.

If you were playing Vassal, I have a good idea who was telling you, and they are incorrect.

Same for Dangerous Terrain tests. Disembarking is NOT movement, it is Deployment. It simply makes you COUNT AS being moved.

No, it was not on Vassal. Just a friendly game at my GC. It didnt even have any effect on the game, I just wanted to put them there, and was told I would need to take a test.

OK let me describe a bit further to ensure my actions were correct and to ensure I am not accused of not telling the whole story.

My wave serpent was backed up to a ruin. My Dires deployed from the WS to a floor of the ruin 3 inches off the ground. The top of access hatch sits appoximatly 2.5-2.75 inches above ground level so they were well within the 2" deployment range.

Still Legal??

Camarodragon wrote:No, it was not on Vassal. Just a friendly game at my GC. It didnt even have any effect on the game, I just wanted to put them there, and was told I would need to take a test.

OK let me describe a bit further to ensure my actions were correct and to ensure I am not accused of not telling the whole story.

My wave serpent was backed up to a ruin. My Dires deployed from the WS to a floor of the ruin 3 inches off the ground. The top of access hatch sits appoximatly 2.5-2.75 inches above ground level so they were well within the 2" deployment range.

Still Legal??

Now this is a muddy area, since the rules do not cover disembarking to anywhere except the ground level, which might have been why he called for a DT test.

IMO, it doesn't say you can deploy anywhere but ground level, so you can't. I would say you would have to deploy onto the ground level then move up into the ruins normally.

Within 2" of an exit point right? So if one could fit a model with-in 2" of the hatch and that just so happens to be the second level of a ruin so what?

"deployed within 2" of one of the vehicle’s access
points, and within unit coherency"

ie, no mention of 'level', ground or otherwise.
The obvious continuation from this is to park your transport under the first level with a squad above it all within 1", say it's an open topped transport and voila embarked from second story.

"A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its access points in the Movement phase"

Yes, but if you have a look, it doesn't mention ruins, because the rules for ruins are an addition to the main rules.

The rules for ruins do not mention disembarking into a higher level, therefore you cannot.

Yeah, it takes 3 inches of movement to go up a level. You can only move 2 inches from the Door.

I'd say you can't go up a level from a disembark.

Gwar! wrote:Yes, but if you have a look, it doesn't mention ruins, because the rules for ruins are an addition to the main rules.

The rules for ruins do not mention disembarking into a higher level, therefore you cannot.

The rules for ruins does not mention that you can disembark at even ground level.. So does this mean you can not?? No because its covered under pg 67, no additional rule for ruins is needed. That would be like saying the rules for disembarking do not mention that you can deploy in clear terrain so does that mean you can not.? Of course you can.. as it states on page 67 "deployed within 2" of one of the vehicle’s access points, and within unit coherency." Theres no mention of ground level or any level for that matter. As long as the unit is within 2 inches and coherency. This is a 3 dimensional game were playing here.. to only assume that they must be deployed at ground level is adding your own words to the rule.

Camarodragon wrote:The rules for ruins does not mention that you can disembark at even ground level.. So does this mean you can not?? No because its covered under pg 67, no additional rule for ruins is needed.

Exactly, so you can deploy at ground level just fine.

No rule says you can deploy above ground level. I am not adding rules, you are the one doing that by saying there is a rule allowing you to deploy above ground level.

Yes we play in a permissive ruleset, we can't do jack without explicit allowance to do it.

Gwar! wrote:

Camarodragon wrote:The rules for ruins does not mention that you can disembark at even ground level.. So does this mean you can not?? No because its covered under pg 67, no additional rule for ruins is needed.

Exactly, so you can deploy at ground level just fine.

No rule says you can deploy above ground level. I am not adding rules, you are the one doing that by saying there is a rule allowing you to deploy above ground level.

Thats not what I am saying at all.. I am saying "When the unit disembarks, each model is deployed within 2" of one of the vehicle’s access points, and within unit coherency" All well and done, no matter if I end up deployed at ground level, at 1" inch level, at 2" level, at 2.234 "inch level or any other level or even varying terrain levels (providing there was available terrain to stand my models there)

Where on pg 67 (or any other page) does it say models deploy only at ground level.?? I believe you are saying this correct?

The rules say you must deploy them within 2" of the access point etc. This is under the NORMAL 40k rules which do NOT deal with ruins. As such, the only possible place to disembark is onto the "ground" level.

As such, when disembarking from a transport in a ruin, you must disembark on the ground level because the rules do not say you can disembark on an upper level.

The rules don't mention the ground level because they do not need to because they do not deal with ruins. The rules for ruins do not mention disembarking into an upper level of the ruin because you can't do it (because no rule lets you).

What if the vehicle lands on the upper level?

You could disembark on an upper level then, couldn't you?

Monster Rain wrote:What if the vehicle lands on the upper level?

You/Your Opponent cheated/broke the rules/did not follow the rules* etc etc etc. *Delete as applicable.

Page 83:
Accordingly, only infantry, jump infantry, jetbikes, monstrous creatures and walkers may move on the upper levels of a ruin - and only if the model can physically be placed there. Other units may only move on the ground level of the ruin.

Nothing else can land on the upper levels. Please note the lack of "Skimmer" and "Tank" in the above list.

Related question: When a drop pod deepstrikes into Difficult, the drop pod needs to make a check or be immobalized (which would result in a wep destroyed for a Drop), but do the guys inside (or dread) just deploy into difficult as normal, or do they take a Dangerous check as if deep striking?

Sentai_Sage wrote:Related question: When a drop pod deepstrikes into Difficult, the drop pod needs to make a check or be immobalized (which would result in a wep destroyed for a Drop), but do the guys inside (or dread) just deploy into difficult as normal, or do they take a Dangerous check as if deep striking?

They deploy as normal for disembarking from a Deep Striking transport as per page 95. They are disembarking, not Deep Striking.

Only the actual models arriving via Deep Strike treat Difficult as Dangerous (i.e the Pod).

Most people (me and my local group included) play as if only the pod tests, im sure Gwar! will make the RAW for it clear in a second.

Edit: 30+ seconds faster than me in fact

Gwar! wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:What if the vehicle lands on the upper level?

You/Your Opponent cheated/broke the rules/did not follow the rules* etc etc etc. *Delete as applicable.

Page 83:
Accordingly, only infantry, jump infantry, jetbikes, monstrous creatures and walkers may move on the upper levels of a ruin - and only if the model can physically be placed there. Other units may only move on the ground level of the ruin.

Nothing else can land on the upper levels. Please note the lack of "Skimmer" and "Tank" in the above list.

That's interesting. Page 71 says that "skimmers can move over all terrain... a skimmer can even end it's move over impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the model on top of it,."

Did the game just break again?

No, because ruins are not impassible terrain.

Skimmers can move into ruins just fine, but can only be placed on the ground level.

Owwww rulesburn, this is gettin good lemme get some popcorn.

Gwar! wrote:No, because ruins are not impassible terrain.

Skimmers can move into ruins just fine, but can only be placed on the ground level.

Huh. I suppose you are right. Gonna remember that... Page 83's list seems pretty airtight. You can land on top of an intact building(P. 78), but not a ruin.

HoverBoy wrote:Owwww rulesburn, this is gettin good lemme get some popcorn.

Gwar! wrote:
No rule says you can deploy above ground level.

Gwar no matter how you cut it, if you're saying that then we can't deploy at ground level into Diff or Danger-T etc etc, the rules are for disembark, you are allowed to place models within 2". Surprisingly, deploying into a ruin will satisfy this single requierment for my disembark, please point to a rule saying I can't 'bark' into/from ruins, if we can't do it from ruins because there is no rule then we can't do it from GL becuase - there is no rule telling us how to deal with it. Just a rule saying "A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its access points in the Movement phase".

Under the ruins section I failed to find any rule on the firing of a unit from a ruin on an upper level. I also failed to find any rule that a player can take a Psychic test from within a ruin on an upper level. Does this mean that it is not allowed.?

The Building and ruins section are additional clarifications for such, which is played under NORMAL 40k. Because something is not defined in this section does not disallow it unless it does so specificly. Such as which units can go into upper levels of ruins.

Of course I can take a Phychic test because the rules of 40k let me so. It doesn't deny me because im on the upper level of a ruin and psychic tests are no where to be found in that section.

Gwar! wrote:The rules say you must deploy them within 2" of the access point etc. This is under the NORMAL 40k rules which do NOT deal with ruins. As such, the only possible place to disembark is onto the "ground" level.

As such, when disembarking from a transport in a ruin, you must disembark on the ground level because the rules do not say you can disembark on an upper level.

The rules don't mention the ground level because they do not need to because they do not deal with ruins. The rules for ruins do not mention disembarking into an upper level of the ruin because you can't do it (because no rule lets you).

Huh? How are ruins not normal 40k rules?