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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/09/15 04:19:36
Subject: The Typhon Dragons Chapter - 2000 pts all-biker force, tactics help please
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
TX, US
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I have finally decided to go with an all-bikers force after playing around with some hybrid lists over the past several months. Bikers amuse me since many players do not know how to deal with them, and they appear to be a fairly resilient force. I like the biker element because it forces me to get into grips with my opponent quickly, no subtlety here. First the list, then my thoughts:
HQs
(410 pts)
Captain Phthalo, Bike, Relic Blade, Artificer Armor, Storm Shield, Hellfire Rounds, Grenades, Skilled Rider
Captain Thulian, Bike, Relic Blade, Artificer Armor, Storm Shield, Hellfire Rounds, Grenades, Skilled Rider
HQ Command Squad
(300 pts)
Command Squad on Bikes:
Company Champion Athalor (PW,combat shield, bolt pistol)
Apothecary Verbano (FNP on squad) w/ Chainsword and bolt pistol
Vet Gallemira w/ PF and Storm Shield
Vet Fulvous w/ PW and bolt pistol
Vet Skobeloff w/ Meltagun and Storm Shield
Troops
(1110 pts)
4x Bikers, 2x meltagun, 1x Attack Bike w/MM
4x Bikers, 2x meltagun, 1x Attack Bike w/MM
4x Bikers, 2x meltagun, 1x Attack Bike w/MM
4x Bikers, 2x meltagun, 1x Attack Bike w/MM
4x Bikers, 2x meltagun, 1x Attack Bike w/MM
4x Bikers, 2x meltagun, 1x Attack Bike w/MM
Fast Attack
(180 pts)
3x Land Speeder w/ 2x HB (Fast, Skimmer)
--2000 pts--
This list gives a total of 13 meltaguns, 6 MM, and 6 HB, as well as a total of 37x T5 bikers (47x wounds) with TL bolters and 3 Land Speeders.
I know I put a lot of points into my captains, but they form the core of my assault force along with the command squad (hellfire rounds are nice due to TL and hitting and wounding even MCs on 2s, while Artificer armor and storm shields protect better in assaults). FNP in the command squad also benefits both captains. I decided not to put a standard on the squad as if I lose in assault combat I will likely choose to redeploy my squad using Combat Tactics.
My 6 biker squads, while all being troops, also form my melta and shooting core. I will try to avoid assaulting with them, leaving that to the Captains and the command squad. Instead I will concentrate all firepower on elements of my opponents' force, picking and choosing what I engage on the field with my greater maneuverability. With 12 meltaguns and 6 MM concentrated on these 6 squads I should be able to pop tanks / transports and fry whatever's inside them.
The Land Speeders are there for fire support and suppression at distance. I can also use their speed to block enemy movement (I can easily skim away from tank shocks, and it will be difficult for MCs or other opponents to hit me in an assault), and with their HB load outs they should not attract too much attention…but with their AV10 I don't expect them to last too long.
I like this list because with the multitude of Str7 and Str8 weapons out there (read autocannons, missile launchers and meltas) this list renders them overkill. I also get plenty of 24" twin-linked bolter action to deal with hordes (I can always choose to use TL bolters instead of meltas versus horde opponents).
Though I have the theory down, I have yet to play this all-biker force. So I am asking all biker players out there for any tactical advice, tricks, or fancy maneuvers that I should learn in order to make this list truly competitive, or any tweaking to the list to bring out another tool to use.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/09/15 04:22:31
Subject: The Typhon Dragons Chapter - 2000 pts all-biker force, tactics help please
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Lord of the Fleet
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For the command squad, I think running them with all plasma guns and nothing else on bikes is a neat idea. FNP gives them a good safety net I believe and they can shoot up 8 shots and then assault. Maybe switch one HB from the speeders for a HF so they can get close and personal and to flush some guys out of cover
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/15 04:22:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/09/15 04:25:34
Subject: Re:The Typhon Dragons Chapter - 2000 pts all-biker force, tactics help please
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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I've been playing a biker army for over a year now, and I've really learned how to adapt my style of play to get used to what bikers are about. If you go to my website www.simhammer.com you will see a section in there on biker tactics.
Here are my suggestions
* Melta guns are great for taking down heavy armor, but you lack any long range anti-transport. Consider some land speeder typhoons or predators to give that.
* Power Fists really flush out a bike squad. Suddenly your bike squads can be useful in assault (when you assault with 2 or 3 squads at once). Their not assault troops, but its a good strategy to close with 2-3 squads and then asssault with all of them.
* MM attack bikes on MG bike squads. HB attack bikes on the rest
* I run with 6 bikes in my squads (including the attack bike). That gives me 2 bullet catchers until I start losing valueable troops, not just 1.
* Put your first wound from shooting on the attack bike (if it will not insta-kill it).
* I use plasma guns. People say "On noes! How can you risk losing a 40 point model to a PG misfire". To those people, I say "The game is about odds". 2 squads with 2 PG each can deliver 8 STR 7 AP2 shots, plus the bolter and heavy bolter shots from the squad. I've used those squads to tear apart bezerkers, blood angles, necrons, etc... Its an incredible amount of firepower in a small package.
On average 1 biker a game will go pop, but by after they have delivered many effective blows. If your shooting something thats not worth it, like IG, just use the bolters.
Not to say "avoid all MG", but use a mix of them. I run a 1/1 or 3/2 mix of plasma guns to melta guns in my squads (obviously every special weapon in a squad is the same)
* Your game is about speed. Don't be afraid to spend 75% of your game turbo boosting. If you get more KP or objectives, you win.
* Often I will field my entire army in reserve and turbo-boost on in a piecemeal fashion. While very fast assault armies will cause big problems to that strategy (kult of speed comes to mind), its great vs. most other armies. The most important part of that tactic is it lowers the length of the game virtually by only putting your army on the board for 2-4 turns.
This calls for further explanation. Bikes can deliver a staggering amount of firepower in a short amount of range, but are vulnerable to long drawn out fights. Your 3++ turbo boost save will help keep your men alive, but at 25+ points a pop losses can hurt your effectivens greatly.
Remember, you can opt to NOT go first if you win the dice roll.
* Again, long range anti-transport will change your game. I cannot stress this enough. I went from getting my ass kicked from mech'dar and kult of speed to doing serious p'owning on them. Suddenly those 3 war walkers with scatter lasers did not wipe my squads. Those truuks were popped before I had orks breathing down my throat.
You will also find that the footprint of bikes is huge. Having more bikes soon means some are out of range. Long range weapons like speeders fix that problem.
* Buy on ebay. Save yourself loads of cash.
* When you do attack, attack hard and fast. Dedicate multiple squads to complete this.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/15 04:54:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/09/15 04:47:43
Subject: Re:The Typhon Dragons Chapter - 2000 pts all-biker force, tactics help please
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
TX, US
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kenshin620: I have thought about going plasma with the command squad due to the extra protection with FNP, but decided I didnt want to rob the points from elsewhere. Plus, I want to make sure that I dont kill so many of my opponents that I end up not being able to get into assault due to range. I also wanted to keep 2 HBs on the speeders so that I could keep them at a distance and still throw some suppressive fire where needed...18x Str5 shots can take down some light infantry.
labmouse42: I have thought alot about the "needing to get close" dilemma. My initial solution was to get 3 predators with just autocannons so they could at least move 6" and still fire their Str7 weapons at range (this way I could at least pop transports and then mass-bolter whats inside with my bike squads), but I didnt like the lack of synergy. My thoughts now are to try to isolate portions of the opponent, pop a transport with one squad, then have 2 squads ready to mass bolter the troops inside. If anything survives I can throw my command squad in to mop up the rest. With 6 squads I can pop 2 transports and then have two other squads bolter whatever comes out. My Speeders also can throw their fire into whatver pops out of the transports. As a last recourse I can always retreat anything that gets assaulted after the first round using Combat Tactics...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/09/16 01:36:38
Subject: Re:The Typhon Dragons Chapter - 2000 pts all-biker force, tactics help please
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
TX, US
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Ok labmouse:
I considered your ideas and changed the list around a bit. I realized some time back that I did need some ranged fire support for taking out transports. Even though speeders are not my favorite platform for anti-armor, I like the idea of being able to move 12" and still shoot my Typhoon ML (2x missiles), and since there may be times I'll need to get up close, I took a HF as my secondary weapon. To do all this I ended up removing one of my troop/biker squads, and with the leftover points I gave 2x plasma guns to my Command squad, and gave all my troop/biker squad sergeants power weapons. Yes, I know I dont get an extra attack and that PFs are better, but I'd rather give all my sergeants a useful weapon than give only 3 of them a weapon.
The list:
HQs
(410 pts)
Captain Phthalo, Bike, Relic Blade, Artificer Armor, Storm Shield, Hellfire Rounds, Grenades, Skilled Rider
Captain Thulian, Bike, Relic Blade, Artificer Armor, Storm Shield, Hellfire Rounds, Grenades, Skilled Rider
HQ Command Squad
(320 pts)
Command Squad on Bikes:
Company Champion Athalor (PW,combat shield, bolt pistol)
Apothecary Verbano (FNP on squad) w/ Chainsword and bolt pistol
Vet Gallemira w/ PF and Storm Shield
Vet Fulvous w/ PW and Plasma gun
Vet Skobeloff w/ Storm Shield and Plasma gun
Troops
(1000 pts)
4x Bikers, Sergeant w/ PW, 2x meltagun, 1x Attack Bike w/MM
4x Bikers, Sergeant w/ PW, 2x meltagun, 1x Attack Bike w/MM
4x Bikers, Sergeant w/ PW, 2x meltagun, 1x Attack Bike w/MM
4x Bikers, Sergeant w/ PW, 2x meltagun, 1x Attack Bike w/MM
4x Bikers, Sergeant w/ PW, 2x meltagun, 1x Attack Bike w/MM
Fast Attack
(270 pts)
3x Land Speeder w/ HF, Typhoon ML (Fast, Skimmer)
--2000 pts--
This list gives a total of 11 kp, 10 meltaguns, 5 MM, 3 HF, 3 Typhoon ML, 2 Plasma guns, as well as a total of 32x T5 bikers (41x wounds) with TL bolters and 3 Land Speeders. Not as much melta-ness as before, but in return I get ranged anti-armor and my bike squads are a little tougher now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/09/16 06:42:23
Subject: The Typhon Dragons Chapter - 2000 pts all-biker force, tactics help please
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Deadly Dire Avenger
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I have also recently (Within the past few months) started playing a biker army, so I can offer you a couple tips from another new biker.
The typhoons are definitely a good choice, giving you some long range support that the enemy isn't going to feel great about devoting heavy support towards killing. Even if he takes them down, it buys your bikes some time, and it will usually do a decent amount of damage itself.
I think like labmouse, you can't just take all meltas in your squads. We do not like close combat on bikes. We are bad at it. We aren't awful, but much like PAGK, we are just too pricey and get too few attacks to be good at it. Meltas, while awesome at 12 inch range, come with the huge downside of.... well needing to be 12 inches from what you want to fight. That means unless you wipe that squad out or break it, its going to assault you next turn, and the majority of squads will be able to out cc you. Plasmas allow you to stay 24 inches away, and still deal great damage to MEQs, MC, and even light vehicles. And if you are facing hordes, where the extra Str and AP are un-necessary, you just shoot your TL bolter instead.
Ultimately, bikers are low model count army, and have to be an assault averse army. If you pick the right time, they can assault and finish off a unit, but only once you've weakened it. In this 200 point list, you have 100 points tied up in melta guns that might only fire 6 shots over the entire course of a game. Meanwhile if you cut some points from somewhere else (the command squad, cut down one squad of bikers, cut down some of the toys on your captains (specifically the artificer armor, the hellfire rounds, and skilled rider), then you can get plasma guns which are going to get 15-25 shots over the course of the game. Yeah you will probably lose on average 1-2 bikers a game to that, but they will more than make up for that in the additional damage they do to the enemy.
I also think you may be overkitting your command squad. Every guy in your squad is worth like 50-60 points if not more. Guys who are carrying a storm shield should be there to absorb the high str high ap attacks that are going to be directed at that unit. But you have a PF on one, and a plasma gun on the other. At 2000 points, every missile launcher/bright lance/melta/lascannon/whatever is going to be taking out at worst, a 40 point model in your apothecary, and at best an 87 point model in Vet Gallemira.
Bikers are already at such a disadvantage in their low model count, and you are exacerbating this disadvantage with the number of toys you are taking. But, at the end of the day you've got to take a list that works for you. Hope everything works out for you, and good luck with the list.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/09/16 11:52:41
Subject: The Typhon Dragons Chapter - 2000 pts all-biker force, tactics help please
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Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought
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looking ok...
You might consider Khan for your list as a captain..
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/16 11:54:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/09/16 12:30:43
Subject: Re:The Typhon Dragons Chapter - 2000 pts all-biker force, tactics help please
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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Its looking pretty good.
I usually throw HBs on my typhoons because I try to keep them as far from the enemy as possible. Its surprising how much less attention the get when 40" away. There will be times when the HF is useful, so thats just a matter of preference.
I also run a cappy and libby at 2k points, and not 2 cappies. That would let you get null zone an avenger, and the 24" bubble of protection from 'doom', or other nasty powers that would screw up your day.
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