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I've never seen him used in any army lists, so I'm wondering if everyone have something against him or if he's just bad. My best guess would be that people prefer Daemon Princes, but what do I know....
Maybe the enhanced warriros aint good enough? Like possessed but without Daemonkin and 1 less attack (althought 5 possessed 160 points, 5 CSM with IoK 105 points). Anyway, I just want the general opinion since I'm kinda itching to try him out.

I think its the fact that Bile is a subpar choice by himself.

Enhanced Marines can be quite powerful if used correctly, a horde of S5 Fearless Marines backed up with Meltaguns and Power Fists would be a threat to almost anything and a rude surprise to alot of players. Sadly, you're spending 160ish points to take an HQ unit who can't ignore armor saves and isn't nearly as scary as a cheaper Daemon Prince.

In a larger game (1750+) you might be able to better absorb the lost points from Bile and make it work.

I've played against it at 2500 points and it is seriously horrifying.

60 CSM, all with various upgrades is nothing to sneeze at, particularly backed up by a Lash Prince, 8 man termicide and 3 Defilers. o.O

IMO: The main problem with Fabius Bile is that his enhanced warriors just don't match up to cult marines, and are comparable in cost (using zerkers as a good example - enhanced + MoK = almost the same stat line as Zerkers, but you gain bolters and special weapons to lose Furious Charge. Since you want this squad in CC, well... Same thing with most cult marines).

Arguably, Enhanced should be better than cult status at it's current cost, balance wise, since you are sacrificing a 'beatstick' HQ slot and having the chance of negative side effects.

It seems to me that they are 3 points cheaper than the most modest Cult Marine...

Monster Rain wrote:It seems to me that they are 3 points cheaper than the most modest Cult Marine...

If you go for a blob squad of 20, they are cheaper, it's true. If you compare 10 man squads, you will find that enhanced + a corresponding mark is the exact same price as a cult marine. Zerkers come out clearly ahead any way you cut it for MoK, MoN, I think most would agree that -1 I and -1 S with is worth FnP if you want something that's t(5). Noise Marines without the noise, well, you'd rather take zerkers. Same thing for MoT - if you don't have the sorc goodies, and are buying +1 S...well, it's a bad choice.

You could run no Icon in an enhanced squad to come out cheaper, but then you're just talking about CSM with +1 Str, which again, is meh compared to other options for just a few more points.

Something else to consider is what exactly counts as the extension of the term "Chaos Space Marines", whether it's any unit in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, the "Chaos Space Marines" entry in the Forces of Chaos section of the Codex, or the "Chaos Space Marines" entry in the Army List section of the Codex.

That aside, I think people discount Fabius Bile's huge number of Instant Death causing attacks. He's going to have a hard time against Terminators, but will do better than the other Chaos Lords against Orks and Imperial Guard.

Jokorey wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:It seems to me that they are 3 points cheaper than the most modest Cult Marine...

If you go for a blob squad of 20, they are cheaper, it's true. If you compare 10 man squads, you will find that enhanced + a corresponding mark is the exact same price as a cult marine. Zerkers come out clearly ahead any way you cut it for MoK, MoN, I think most would agree that -1 I and -1 S with is worth FnP if you want something that's t(5). Noise Marines without the noise, well, you'd rather take zerkers. Same thing for MoT - if you don't have the sorc goodies, and are buying +1 S...well, it's a bad choice.

You could run no Icon in an enhanced squad to come out cheaper, but then you're just talking about CSM with +1 Str, which again, is meh compared to other options for just a few more points.

They're all fearless as well IIRC.

And I'd only put an icon on one or two just in case I wanted to bring terminators in near them.

10 Enhanced CSM with IoK and 2 melta guns in a Rhino: 265

10 Berserkers, personal Icon and a Rhino: 250

So that's only fifteen points less and doesn't have any melta guns. Also, Fabius Bile's enhanced Marines will always have their Strength bonus, not just on the Charge. They do take a hit on WS though.

Seems like a wash to me.

Sorry, I meant Mark instead of Icon in the last line up above - mistype there.

All cult marines are fearless as well.

I'm not saying you can't play Bile and have fun with him, but from a purely effectiveness vs point cost PoV, he just doesn't cut it on the enhanced warrior side of things.

Jokorey wrote:Sorry, I meant Mark instead of Icon in the last line up above - mistype there.

Oh I know.

Jokorey wrote:I'm not saying you can't play Bile and have fun with him, but from a purely effectiveness vs point cost PoV, he just doesn't cut it on the enhanced warrior side of things.

Based on what?

Without a mark(and again why mark every squad?) 10 Enhanced CSM with 2 Special weapons and a Rhino are cheaper than the same number of Berserkers in a Rhino.

Because the +1 str he confers has a drawback, and only has one use - CC/Assault. If you are assaulting with a unit, there are better options for comparable point costs, and the primary role will be well served by adding a MoK/N/S.

If you are not planning on assaulting with them, you are wasting points. Paying 30 points for a 10 man squad to be a little bit better in assaults that you're trying to keep them out of anyway is just not effective. CSM are already pretty solid in assualt - you don't need to pay to tip the scales just a little bit more (but not a lot) in their favor if you are wanting a versatile unit - they already do that well.

Jokorey wrote:If you are not planning on assaulting with them, you are wasting points. Paying 30 points for a 10 man squad to be a little bit better in assaults that you're trying to keep them out of anyway is just not effective.

And fearless.

Also, why are you trying to keep them out of CC? There's a lot of units out there that wouldn't want to get charged with that many strength five(or six) attacks.

And 66% of the time there is no Drawback to the Enhancement.

Dont forget you still get the advantages 100% of the time.

The rod of torments Instant Death only applies after you take your saving throw right?

Limbo wrote:The rod of torments Instant Death only applies after you take your saving throw right?

Correct.

Better to take a slaanesh daemon weapon then, if it is Instant death you want.
But I might try Fabius some time. Those enhanced warriors are potentially risky, but can prove to be useful. They are not as risky as a DW, which you roll for each time you attack...

The major advantage that enhanced marines have over Khorne Berzerkers--for basically the same cost with a Khorne icon--is that enhanced marines can take meltaguns, which berzerkers can't do. So they provide their own antitank support and don't have to depend on oblits/termicide/chosen to open transports for them, which berzerkers can't do.

(We can argue all day about whether WS5 and furious charge is better than continuous Str5, but in my experience they work out to be about the same overall.)

In the current highly-mechanized environment, that means you can spam units of enhanced-Khorne marines in rhinos and do a 5th edition rhino rush, popping enemy transports and assaulting the passengers in the same turn. If you try to spam berzerkers in the same way, you will fail against mech armies.

I ran rhino rush Bile armies (with lesser daemon support) like this for a couple of 'ard Boys and never failed to place. But I agree that it really only works in larger games (I'd say 2K+) because of the buy-in of Fabius himself.

But taking Bile and then one or two units of enhanced marines isn't really worth it versus just taking regular CSM or chosen for antitank support. It's an all-or-nothing army.

So how does Fabius hold up in combat? What squad does he go best with?

Limbo wrote:So how does Fabius hold up in combat? What squad does he go best with?

He's fine in a Rhino with any of the other CSMs, really.

You're bringing him to buff your troops, not really as a CC monster. Though he has his moments when he solos a Warboss or a unit of Tyrant Guard.

Then again, looking at his stats...

T5, S5, FNP? Fearless? For 160 Points? That's not shabby at all.

Don't forget the Rod of Torment and all those attacks.

Yuppers. I've messed around with him a few times and have found that your paying the points for the oppurtunity to buff your dudes, not have an efficient or killy HQ. He's not terrible in CC thanks to his large number of attacks and not as squishy as other CSM heroes *cough**cough* Huron *cough* but dont rely on him to take out any dedicated CC dudes (llike assault terms, carnies, etc.). As stated before hes good as a tarpit against smaller dudes or as a good way to kill high-wound, low save models like tyrant guard, tyranid warriors, etc.

The Enchanced dudes are totally worth it though; just getting the "neutral" +1 S is a great help against marines to turn your favor in combat. The +2 S "lose 1 dude every turn" roll, i've found, is preferable to the neutral one. 1 guy per turn isnt a big deal when your meched up, and your pretty much guaranteed to mess some gak up when you get in CC. All in all Fabius is a very fun, fluffy, and pretty powerful character when you roll well on the enhanced table (lol)