OP or not OP? Maybe just circumstantional??

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**CptCortez128**

Before i start, please do not turn this into a troll fest!

Ive just got home from playing a 3k 2 a side game. myself as flesh tearers and team mate guard. our opponents were wolves and plague guard/marine list from vraks 3. We all had 1.5k each.

We all noticed a massive power level to the DC and chaplain, they took out 60 plague zombies, plague champion, 10 plague marines, and 5 plague ogryns (effectively taking 1 player out of the game). This then left the wolf player to take on the rest of my tearers and a horde guard army.

With the speed of the tearers rhinos,and the fearsome combo of re roll hits/wounds on charge with DC and chaplain, do you think this unit is far to OP? Seen as the biggest downside to DC is rage (which i negate with a transport) which can be easily handled.

So just under 400 points took out around 1k of points, losing just 3 models. This seems to be a reacurring theme with the DC

What do you think? How do you over come DC?

Liam

**Athera**

Locally most players have overcome the over-poweredness of the Blood Angels codex by refusing to play against the Blood Angels codex.

One of the local players was even warned "Dude, you're going to go from being the army that everyone kicks across the street to the army that no one wants to play."

**Alpharius**

Refusing to play against a Codex?

That seems rather... sad.

So there's no chance of maybe mixing up your tactics and/or army selection?

**MeanGreenStompa**

I've fought BAs once with the new codex against my orks.

1k each, he took 2 assault squads (jump), a dread, a baal with flamer turret and 7 death company with a chaplain leading them (also jump). I took an ork gunline (yeah, interesting concept) of 2 30strong shoota boy mobs, 2 units (8strong?) of lootas and a big mek with kff, cybork and pk.

I gave him a proper kicking. Going to be adding the chaplain's head to da ead stick!

But yes, I think BAs (and SWs) are comedic and simplistically easy to come up with powerful builds/op choices.

**mythological**

honestly, as tau it is not that difficult.

If I get first turn that rhino is disappearing if it is in LOS of my railguns, all I have to do is take the transport out and If have effectively turned that mean and ultra fast unit of doom into a overpriced, footslogging unit that won't get to my lines intil about turn 3. While they are running up I can position my plas suits so that when he gets close, he will die.

It is mostly the same for other ranged armies, just take them out with high powered shots before they get to you.

My 2 cents

**Gorskar.da.Lost**

My Speed Freeks can usually match the Red Menace for scooting around the board. I can report some success with speediness.

**ComputerGeek01**

I'd say it's because even though the Nurgle Marines are tougher, they don't specialize in anything else. No cool guns, no insane number of attacks or magic powers they are just a little harder to kill. So once they go against a dedicated unit like that they get stomped.

I like how other people are pointing out that to counter a melee unit you should use a shooting unit, they're right but it sort of goes without saying.

**Samus_aran115**

I think you are indeed the OP

Anyway, I refuse to play BA also. Out of a group of like 5 people, 3 of them have decided to play BA. Shut the hell up and hop off the bandwagon. Go play tau or something.

**Marrak**

First off, IMO 2 v 2 games are fun, but not a good example for what units are balanced or not.

Next, while BA do have their strengths they're not unbeatable. It will be an uphill battle, but I've got two BA players in my area, both are playing with strong lists, and yet their win records aren't staggering.

Heck, I beat one of em pretty soundly and I play with an all-comers 'nid list.

Look at it this way: you know what they're going to do. Their entire army is geared for it. So take advantage of that and make them react to your decisions. DC giving you problems? Throw a cheap unit at em that will keep them busy for a turn or two. I find gaunts and a tervigon hilarious for this. Fast vehicles? Cool. HVC, spore pods, or what they're carrying will definitely cause them problems, to say nothing of what a full brood of hive guard can do. Even a trygon can wreck one of it deepstrikes behind it and glances it.

Don't get me wrong, BA are certainly powerful, but I wouldn't say they're completely OTT.

**Jaon**

DC are nothing scary. Anything with t4, 3+ 1 wound and no INV save is easy pickings for me. No matter how many thousands of attacks, feel no pain or power weapons they have.

Not saying I could deal with 100 death company, but 10 or so wouldnt be a problem. Id much rather verse 10 DC than what my current BA player totes.

Was this 10 death company? Im wondering how they defeated so may without being cut down in turn.

**Brother SRM**

The Forgeworld codices aren't generally written to be competitive. Death Company are nasty, but powerfists, battlecannons, or really anything strength 8 or ignoring armor will make quick work of them. They're just tougher Marines, but not Plague Marine tough.

**Noisy_Marine**

The kill total you mentioned isn't that impressive. Plague zombies fall over to a stiff wind. Killing the plague marines is a little more impressive. But you have to realize the death company with chaplain get to go first even if charged by the plague marines - they are only initiative 3. I'm not too familiar with plague ogyrn, but if they are anything like stand ogyrn they are pushovers to any dedicated assault unit.

**Darth Bob**

Just don't let DC get in assault with you, and you're fine.

**Eyclonus**

Problem: Fast Moving OP Mechanised Assault Unit

Solution: TAKE AWAY THEIR METAAAL BAWKKSES!!!

**Slarg232**

Eyclonus wrote:Problem: Fast Moving OP Mechanised Assault Unit

Solution: TAKE AWAY THEIR METAAAL BAWKKSES!!!

THE COWARDS! THE FEWLS!

But seriously, what are Plague Zombies, and how haven't I heard of them?

**Oscarius**

IIRC it's an apocalypse formation. I think it's still on the GW site if you look for apocalypse datasheets.

**Slarg232**

Oscarius wrote:IIRC it's an apocalypse formation. I think it's still on the GW site if you look for apocalypse datasheets.

Cheers, searching now

**Eyclonus**

Think Guardsmen blobs, but crappier.

**Slarg232**

Eyclonus wrote:Think Guardsmen blobs, but crappier.

Bout what I thought, to tell the truth.

Going Off Topic for a sec, but anyone else think that this is just an amazing mental image?

Should Khorne be pleased by these offerings, the skies will
become thick with crimson-hued thunderheads. The
blooded clouds roil and coalesce in a great spiral above the
battlefield as the chanting of the World Eaters reaches fever
pitch. With a deafening crack of thunder like the warcry of
Khorne himself, the skies open and blood rains down in
great squalls. A storm of gore spatters and soaks all those
who would stand in the path of the World Eaters’ rampage.

**Jackmojo**

Eyclonus wrote:Think Guardsmen blobs, but crappier.

This applies to the whole traitor list from Vraks really, in general its much less good then normal IG (being built off of the rules of the old IG codex, instead of the newer very good one) in exchange for a few so-so tricks and the ability to bring CSM as an elite choice.

In regards to the OP, don't feel bad, you plowed under a sub-par army that is specifically bad in close combat with specialized assault troops, its not the fault of the BA codex, any assault army would have done the same.

Jack

**Eyclonus**

The first Plague zombie rules were in Codex: Eye of Terror.
9pts each for WS3, BS2, S3, T3(4), I3, W1, A1(2), 4+ armour Fearless and SnP.
They were pretty crap to use, same as the Ulthwe strikeforce, only the Cadians were good while the Space Wolves 13th Company of the Wulfen were worth using for a more elitist version of SW.