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I love speeders. They are my favorite unit. I always have three HF/MM. Last night I brainstormed a list that included 3xTyphoon/MM speeders. When I increased the point limit of the list I realized I wanted more so I added a 4th but changed the unit composition to 2xHF/MM and 2xTyphoon/MM. I had some points to spare and said wow maybe I should add another. I decided against it based on principle alone. So I ask you, Dakka, how many speeders are too many at 2000pts?

(For context purposes the rest of the list included Hammernaters, 2xRazor Tacs, and 3xVindis)

My first reaction is 6. 3 squads of 2 is the most I could imagine being able to use effectively, anymore and the squadrons rules seem like they'd bite you in the butt more then they'd help.

I've heard about peopel taking a naked HB Speeder with each Typhoon so they could stack penetrating hits on the naked Speeder. I'm not sure if thats entirely worth it but its an idea.

I only ever run 2 in singles. Once I run more people start to see that they are important and shoot at them more, and once they start shooting the speeders its just free killpoints...

I have played that 9 speeder army all year and found the naked spare speeder very useful for loss purposes.

However they are a fragile force at times depending on how you use them.

Deuce11 wrote:I love speeders. They are my favorite unit. I always have three HF/MM. Last night I brainstormed a list that included 3xTyphoon/MM speeders. When I increased the point limit of the list I realized I wanted more so I added a 4th but changed the unit composition to 2xHF/MM and 2xTyphoon/MM. I had some points to spare and said wow maybe I should add another. I decided against it based on principle alone. So I ask you, Dakka, how many speeders are too many at 2000pts?

(For context purposes the rest of the list included Hammernaters, 2xRazor Tacs, and 3xVindis)

well.... theoretically there's no upper limit. if gw would let me I'd run an army full of nothing but speeders
In practice 6 is all I can generally fit into my armies, for various reasons....

4

Speeders are amazing units.

I am strongly of the opinion that the HF/MM variant in anything but a Vulkan list is not the optimal choice. Every single time I play against these units they under perform. They zip forward into range of everything I have, shoot one thing then die. They just never earn their keep. I would rather have MM's on attack bikes. That is just my opinion though, of course. I know many players who love that variant.

The Typhoon for me is the best option. Running it with a MM is not the best choice, IMO.

The reason being that a Typhoon with Heavy bolter is a great tool where the weapons work in concert with the platform. You can move 12" and fire two frags and a heavy bolter for great anti infantry work.

You can also move 12" and fire two kraks, maneuvering for side armor shots.

Or, you can move 6" and fire two Kraks and the heavy bolter which actually comes in handy more often than you would think against units in cover that are too spread out or on multiple levels of a building where the frags wouldn't work best.

The problem with the MM is that it wants to get close. The Typhoon launcher wants to stay far away. The Typhoon lives by staying at the fringe of its range, which is why the H.bolter works so well. If you fly in close for the melta range shot, or even the 24" shot, you vastly increase the amount of weapons that can fire back at your expensive, fragile target.

Another benefit of the Typhoon is that it perfectly fits behind a Rhino/Razorback for cover while having unobstructed vision.

I run them as singles or in squads of two and three. The three strong squad can be a bit unwieldy, but again, keeping them at max range with plenty of other targets close to the enemy means they rarely get shot. The upside is that you put out tremendous firepower. 6 frags and 3 heavy bolters can put down 20+ wounds on an MEQ squad, easy. 6 kraks with 12" movement is brutal.

As a rule of thumb though, I typically run 3 speeders, although I would say 3 squads of 2 typhoons is a smart play too.

It really depends on the overall composition of your army and what kind of terrain you play with in your local.

6 or 4 (2-2-2 or 2-2). 2 doesn't seem enough, after all, its only a AV10 vehicle. 4 gives you both a decent number of models to make sure you get some "oomph" out of them, and with two speeders, taking out 2 AV 10 models means your opponent has cut your mobile (probably antitank) firepower down drastically. Having 6 seems like the top number for me, but i would put them in 3 squads of 2, to increase the number of targets you can hit/increase the number of targets the opponent has to choose from.

7 are to many. 2 to 6 is perfect.

Typhoons or speeders with 2 HB are awesome. Melta ones get shot up easily for what they deliver imho

If you smash a 200 point tank with a 70 point speeder and then the speeder gets blown away next turn.... then thats awesome.

The best platform for a meltagun is a platform that is mobile, the more so the better. I think that it can be agreed that a multimelta speeder is a solid choice. I'm with Reecius, I like Typhoon's better, but speeders make fantastic multimelta platforms.

I run 6 at 2000 and 3 at 1500. I normally use only typhoons but some times i will change a unit of 2 typhoons to 2 MM/HF. The typhoons are awesome because they threaten everything in the game except TEQ's and land raiders/monoliths from a huge distance. 2 of them pack more firepower than a dev squad for a much smaller price and greater mobility. People tend to not focus on them because they can stay on the far sides of the boards and stay out of range of everything except for what they are shooting at. They pop transports, kill MC's and lay down lots of templates and heavy bolter shots onto hoards after making a 12 inch move for less than 100 points you really cant ask for more.

Don't mix the MM with the typhoon because you cant shoot both if you move over 6 and both weapons want to target the same kind of things so its either a waste of your mobility or a waste of a weapon and since the MM has such as short range it wastes the typhoons long range. Also don't underestimate the awesomeness of heavy bolters for their low points they are pretty decent.

HF/MM speeders play different and die alot faster but they can threaten literally everything and are good for playing head games with your opponent so they earn their points for me not from doing actual killing but from my opponent worrying about them and hopefully making bad decisions.

Either way using every FA slot on a speeder or two is not a bad use of points because it puts a bunch of cheap armor on the table that your opponent can't ignore and takes heat of the rest of your army while pulling more than its own weight.

Both are great for contesting objectives on turn 5.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:If you smash a 200 point tank with a 70 point speeder and then the speeder gets blown away next turn.... then thats awesome.

The reason I don't like them is because once the speeder has shot its wad, its going to be destroyed as its close to the enemy (and AV 10 is so very crunchy).

What are the chances of the MM killing rear armor? (~32.82%) How many 70 point speeders do you need to throw away to kill that one tank? Thats why I prefer the typhoons. Its all just a matter of what you perfer

How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?
-- Verbal : The Usual Suspects

If you deep strike the HF/MM speeders, they can play a bit of an assassination role. Kinda like what podnaughts do, but being lower armor, higher speed.

To really do it with speeders it takes 2 units, so you can have a better chance of having one on turn 2.

For the most part, if you are talking typhoons, there is no upper limit on how many is a good idea. Where else in the SM book do you get 2 missile shots and a heavy bolter on a mobile platform for 90 points?

labmouse
the speeders are also target saturation. players who fight agaisnt them alot fear them, and with good reason. they're harder to kill than the av10 alone would lead one to believe.

The chances of killing a battletank with a (twin linked) multi melta are pretty good. 50% to kill if you penetrate, almost certainly will penetrate, about a 90% chance to hit (3+ with reroll - if you're not running vulkan that's your fault.) you won't always kill it but a twin linked multi melta is the best chance you have with any single weapon attack in the game.

If you run speeders in squadrons you'll almost certainly kill whatever armored target you shoot at if you're within 12" for double dice. If they're going bananas trying to kill your speeders thats giving your rhinos assault marines taccies etc time to move up. They cant kill it all.
AF

If I ever made a marines army i'd include as amny as I could, literally. Best and most badass unit in the codex. Put more in, but I think land speeder storms and typhoons are better after you have meltas in your tactical squads.

Well, in the 4th ed, I played (sometimes) an asscannon army of doom which was very annoying to my opponents.
I used to include 6 to 9 Speeders depending on the pt size.

In the 5th ed, I see Speeders more as pt fillers. They can close gaps in the combat line (when this damned last Berzerker is still alive and you've shot all your weapons - up to the Speeders').
Therefore, I'd take 2 or 3 of them with mm/hf, not more.

I've played Chaos Marines for years, and so when I decided to start a Marine army I figured I would base it on everything that Chaos doesn't get to have, which includes Scouts, Pods, and Speeders. I'm going to be trying at least one Storm to drive some CCW Scouts around, and I think a pair of Typhoon/HB speeders in a Squadron should serve me well, too. If they perform as well as I'm expecting, I may have to get some more of each type as I build up the army.

One thing I've been wondering about is how effective the Assault Cannon Speeders are. Since Chaos doesn't get AssCannons at all, I'm not used to using them and don't really get their purpose; should I pair it with an HB to shred infantry, or with an MM to pierce tanks? For the price of the AssCannon I could just take another Typhoon... is it worth the cost?

It depends. Asscannons aren't the best anti infatry, unless you are fighting guard out in the open. AP 4 is not bad, but the guys who wander out of cover have 3+ or better. Orks laugh at even 4 shots... so it doesn't do well against hordes. Its only marginally decent against TMC and the other bugs. S8 krak rounds are better most of the time.

Against vehicles, it can threaten anything, but I can count on one hand how many times it has destroyed AV 13+.

So if you want a very expensive weapon that can threaten (but not be the best at) killing anything, assault cannons fit the bill. If you don't mind paying a premium for them that is.

I played assault cannon speeders in 4th edition where they worked pretty well, but abandoned them in 5th. They're crippled by the 24" range of the gun. After you shoot at something, you're within 24" of it, which means a lot more things can shoot back. All of the weaknesses of the MM speeder, with none of its advantages.

Typhoons are my favorite also. Standoff range makes them survivable.

Seriously. Anything more than 3 is too many. With the current squadron rules, every glance has a 1/6 chance of killing a squadroned speeder and 1/2 a chance for penetrating hits. At av 10, its damn easy to penetrate a speeder.

Aw 6 typhoon speeders are fine. The mobility and range and the other threats you put in your list can keep the heat off of them and keep them alive and squadrons open the door for wound allocation.

Typhoons!!!

as many as possable.

2 missile launchers and a HB that move 12" a turn at full force?

yes plese, with a side of awsome