Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I'm going to start playing Eldar soon. I've already got a codex and an Avatar, and Im going to buy the rest once I get my next paycheck on friday. Im planning on buying 3 battleforces with some aspect warriors scattered between. I want to play Ulthwe, and have a lot of pyskers.

HQ
Avatar of Khaine – 155

Farseer
Spirit Stones, Mind War, Doom, Fortune, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Singing Spear – 168

Elites
6 Fire Dragons
Exarch, Tank Hunters, Crack Shot – 130
Wave Serpent, TW Cannons 100

6 Howling Banshees
Exarch, Executioner, War Shout, Acrobatic – 128
Wave Serpent, TW Cannons 100

Troops

7 Dire Avengers – 84

8 Dire Avengers – 130
Exarch, 2 Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm

11 Storm Guardians - 143
Warlock, Enhance, Singing Spear 2x Melta

Heavy Support
3 Support Weapons - 130
Shadow Weaver, Warlock, Conceal

5 Dark Repaers.-197
Exarch, Crack Shot

3 War Walkers – 285
Bright Lance, Eldar Missle Launcher, Spirit Stones


I wouldn't usually take crack shot on my fire dragon exarch, but I had an extra points and nothing else to spend it on.

I know a lot of people don't like to take Support Weapons, but with shadow weavers, they can be pretty effective. Im getting 7 STR 6 blasts shots off at 48 inches every turn, and because they're barrage weapons, they'll have a hard time claiming a cover save

Lots of flaws in the list... some things to think about

Avatar - he's good but if you are going that route you'll want guardians in your list to make that fearless hit home with mass cheap wounds.

Farseer with singing spear, do you plan on having your farseer 12" away from a tank?

Fire Dragons - tank hunters is overkill, you have s8+D6 or 2D6. +1 to pen isn't worth the cost. Crack shot, there is very few situations that ignoring cover will help a single melta shot.

Banshees - War shout requires an enemy to fail their ldr test, doesn't happen often and when it does it usually just mean you go from a 4+ to a 3+ to hit... not worth it's points. Take 10 banshees always, you MUST slaughter your target before they get a chance to swing back.

Dire Avengers - DA on foot are rather useless with their 18" range. At least guardians have a warlock and heavy weapon to hit with at range.

Storm Guardians - If your opponent is smart, these will NEVER see 12" range.

Support Weapons - Are TERRIBLE. Shadow Weaver is S6 Ap-, so that means everything you manage to wound still gets it's armor save and it's easy for even IG to get a cover save by just sitting in area terrain. That is 130 points that is dead if something Deepstrikes next to it. Also it's one shot per gun, not per gunner. So it's 1 BS4 small blast and 2 small blasts that use multiple barrage rules, it'll scatter and scatter hard.

Dark Reapers - Overcosted and usually not worth it. One Drop pod marine and they are gone. If you are goign to take them then kit the Exarch with either Fast Shot EML or Crack Shot Tempest Launcher.

War walkers - Never mix weapon types. Different types mean different ranges and roles, focus on what you want them to do. Dual scatter Laser are the way to go with these as the 4 shots per gun compensates for BS3.

Wave Serpents - Dual S Cannon means you'll be moving a 6" to fire both guns at a 24" range. Definitely not working up to the eldar benefit of speed.

I'd give you a list for you, but that would take the fun out of learning to list build

It's a bold list. I'll give you that. I don't think it's very competitive though. Simply put, you're relying on some soft targets to do the bulk of your long range damage. Those War Walkers are EXPENSIVE for how fragile they are. One infiltrating Wolf Scout squad could probably down those things and lock them up.

1. NEVER leave a tank without spirit stones in a competitive list.
2. Fire Dragons don't need an exarch, tank hunters OR crackshot, it's a waste of points.
3. Farseer has really too many powers, stick with doom/fortune or really.. guide/fortune in your list isn't a bad idea. Guiding those uber expensive walkers for even one turn could go the distance.
4. Dire Avengers on the ground scare me. They're pretty fragile when given any sort of direct fire. They need serpents, or a HORDE of guardians around them for cover.
5. Hey, I support your choice of weapons platform, but make sure you leave something fast and nasty to counter out-flankers. The problem with mounted banshees is you have to pre-emptively drop out of the vehicle or drop before it moves. In a hybrid list, you might want some harlies with a shadowseer to protect your backfield.
6. Enhancing Storm Guardians sounds sweet, and their meltas sound sweet, but BS3 will screw you. Go with conceal so they get some cover, use them to screen your avengers since you lack serious foot numbers.
7. Really, the walkers could be dropped 100 points by being turned into Scatterwalkers.
8. Get more guardians. You have an Avatar. He makes them better than the average militia.
9. DA's without an Exarch makes me sad panda. Just get rid of that squad for aforementioned guardians. Weapon platforms with multi-shot weapons are your friends.
10. Dark Reapers. Again. Damage in a small package -- fragile. I haven't really seen any lists with them in 5th edition and it's not that they suck, they suffer from Starcannon syndrome now - everyone's got a cover save so your edge with this unit is effectively gone. Drop them and get something with more numbers.

Hmmm You really put a lot of thought into this.
The first thing, is that I have to conserve my money. I'd love a 10 (wo)man banshee squad, but I don't have the money.

And I had originally planned for lots of guardians, I even had a bunch more in my list. But then I realized I forgot transports So I had to take a bunch out. After reviewing the list, I see a bunch of l flaws you pointed out, that I completely over looked.

With the farseer, the singing spear is cheap. I probably won't use it, but you never know, and it's good to be prepared for 3 points.

Tank Hunters may be overkill, But I like to prepare for Land raiders, and you never know either. And I know crack shot is unnecessary, but i did have 5 points leftover at the very end, and I couldn't find anything else to spend it on.

I don't have the money, and I think that 10 banshees are overkill anyways. When I made the list, I forgot to mention that the farseer was going to be added to the banshees. I think a combination of doom, and shooting from other units, I'm hoping it would be enough. Im not going to assault a unit, if I don't have a chance being able to kill all of them.

The Dire avengers that aren't in a transport, are kind of just there. They'll move forward, but not super fast. They're just there to add some extra shooting where needed.


When I went over this in my head, the storm guardians were originally in a transport. But yeah, I see your point.

I checked the rule before I decided this. Both crew members and any accompanying characters(warlock) can shoot the weapon(but not independent characters.) My plans for these don't involve units in area terrain. Although I won't pierce any armor, against hordes their armor is so bad, they can't be expected to make most of them. And with high armor marines, the best way to kill them without piercing their armor is a bunch of high STR shorts, which is something they can do.

Dark Reapers are in cover. They're designed to kill marines from very far away. I think they'd survive a drop pod. 3+ armor saves, and hopefully being in cover should keep the majority of them alive. And then i can shoot whatever came out. And if a dreadnought popped out, I'd be screwed where it went.

Im not mixing weapon types. Im using them both as anti-vehicle STR 8 weapons. Although I do understand the difference between STR 8 Lance and just STR 8. Im still debating on starcannons in place of missle launchers. That would make them great anti terminator.

Im mainly using the wave serpent as a transport, and buying a weapon is necessary, and that was the cheapest.

I like list building. Feel free to offer tips, but to me building lists is almost as fun as the actual game.

Couple things on those, that are "looks better on paper".

Farseer with spear is indeed cheaper, but remember with a spear it only has one attack in CC vs 2. I'll make a big difference if it comes down to it, much more then 1 shot.

5-6 Dragons vs a landraider is candy without upgrades. Just need to get in 6".

10 Banshees is far from overkill, remember most of what is out there is marines. Hitting 50% of the time and wounding only 33% of the time is very lackluster, you need every last hit you can get in.

You'll learn fast, unserpented DA = dead DA

You miss read the artillery rule, any crewman (not crewmen) within 2" can fire the gun, but the gun can't fire more then once. The other crew members can fire their sidearm if they wish. Yes, artillery really is that terrible.

BL 36" and EML is 48", Ap2 vs AP3, heavy armor vs medium armor. Yes, having two different weapons means variety, but it also means they lack focus on what their role is. Dual Scatter Laser = light armor popping and infantry mowing + lower point cost. Dual EML = Long range anti medium armor (thought BS3 hurts this without guide) and horde blasting hell. BL is too expensive for AV10, S Cannon is too short range for AV 10, Starcannon... is crap lol.

You'll actually find that some of your best firing is from your serpents. Give a S Cannon a try, then try out EML and you'll find 48" s8 TL on a vehicle that is fast as hell and hard to pop becomes fantastic.

Here's my $0.02

Soulx wrote:
Avatar of Khaine – 155

Awesome unit if supported properly. Surround him with guardians and keep your Farseer close for Guide.

Soulx wrote:
Farseer
Spirit Stones, Mind War, Doom, Fortune, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Singing Spear – 168

This is in a bit of an awkward niche at the moment. I'd suggest either downgrading to use points elsewhere or upgrading to Eldrad

Soulx wrote:
6 Fire Dragons
Exarch, Tank Hunters, Crack Shot – 130
Wave Serpent, TW Cannons 100

Good choice, but as others have said, downgrade a bit.

Soulx wrote:
6 Howling Banshees
Exarch, Executioner, War Shout, Acrobatic – 128
Wave Serpent, TW Cannons 100

Banshees were some of my first models when I started. They look great on paper, but that damned 3str really hurts against MeQ. If you are set on using them, max out the squad, but I actually prefer Scorpions.

Soulx wrote:
7 Dire Avengers – 84

This seems out of place. Either: 1) Drop to 5, put in a WS. 2) Upgrade to 10 with Exarch, Bladestorm, put in WS. 3) Drop in place for guardians to hang out with your Avatar.

Soulx wrote:
8 Dire Avengers – 130
Exarch, 2 Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm

See above.

Soulx wrote:
11 Storm Guardians - 143
Warlock, Enhance, Singing Spear 2x Melta

I've always hated Storm Guardians. I find Defender to be much more effective. Even in CC with a Tactical Squad, you tend to get chewed up, and against anything that is CC focused, you don't stand a chance.

Soulx wrote:
3 Support Weapons - 130
Shadow Weaver, Warlock, Conceal

Ah, Support Weapons. I loved Support Weapons, once. The problem is they really just suck. I've tried all their different options in a variety of battles and tactics. I can't get them ever to be all that effective. Make sure you read the rules on shooting at artillery. The platforms can be hit, and they count as armor 10 that get destroyed on ANY glancing or penetrating hit. Yes, one volley of bolters can easily eliminate this squad.

And, you only get the number of shots equal to the FEWER of your surviving crew or your surviving platforms.

Soulx wrote:
5 Dark Repaers.-197
Exarch, Crack Shot

I LOVE Dark Reapers. I know most players disagree with me, but I've found them to be uber effective. They typically need some backup close-by, but they can, if used right, decimate MeQ.

Soulx wrote:
3 War Walkers – 285
Bright Lance, Eldar Missle Launcher, Spirit Stones

One Weapon or the other, not both. I like that you'll be using them for tank killing (especially with a lack of much else to fill that roll in your army), but pick which way you want to go. If you're going to see lots of AV13+, take BL, if you want to dual-ability to take out some hordes, go EML.

Problem with the Avatar is he's slow. He cannot attach to other units so can be blasted away, luckily not a massive model so can hide ok.

Why all those psychic powers on the Farseer? Cannot cast them all at once anyway.

Fire Dragons don't need all those extras - keep them cheap as they will die anyway. Dragons Serpent should have either twin-linked shuri cannons or scatter lasers and underslug shuri cannon to give fire support to the Dragons if they pop a transport.

Banshees aren't too brilliant as cannot assault out of the transport. Need 5+ to wound as well.

All troops should be in transports, pref with brightlances.

Heavy support choices need sorting out, Warwalkers don't need all those weapons. I'd go Fire Prisms and they would be it really.

Problem with the Avatar is he's slow. He cannot attach to other units so can be blasted away, luckily not a massive model so can hide ok.

Well, I battled two mech Eldar armies in the GT final 2009.
They both ran an Avatar and this guy was rather fast reaching my front ranks - I played CSM.
He died rather quickly but did some damage.
I won one mission (KPs) and the other was a draw (2 objectives game, stupid rulebook mission).

How can the Avatar be fast? Can move max 12" a turn, no fleet.

Zain60 wrote:It's a bold list. I'll give you that. I don't think it's very competitive though. Simply put, you're relying on some soft targets to do the bulk of your long range damage. Those War Walkers are EXPENSIVE for how fragile they are. One infiltrating Wolf Scout squad could probably down those things and lock them up.

1. NEVER leave a tank without spirit stones in a competitive list.
2. Fire Dragons don't need an exarch, tank hunters OR crackshot, it's a waste of points.
3. Farseer has really too many powers, stick with doom/fortune or really.. guide/fortune in your list isn't a bad idea. Guiding those uber expensive walkers for even one turn could go the distance.
4. Dire Avengers on the ground scare me. They're pretty fragile when given any sort of direct fire. They need serpents, or a HORDE of guardians around them for cover.
5. Hey, I support your choice of weapons platform, but make sure you leave something fast and nasty to counter out-flankers. The problem with mounted banshees is you have to pre-emptively drop out of the vehicle or drop before it moves. In a hybrid list, you might want some harlies with a shadowseer to protect your backfield.
6. Enhancing Storm Guardians sounds sweet, and their meltas sound sweet, but BS3 will screw you. Go with conceal so they get some cover, use them to screen your avengers since you lack serious foot numbers.
7. Really, the walkers could be dropped 100 points by being turned into Scatterwalkers.
8. Get more guardians. You have an Avatar. He makes them better than the average militia.
9. DA's without an Exarch makes me sad panda. Just get rid of that squad for aforementioned guardians. Weapon platforms with multi-shot weapons are your friends.
10. Dark Reapers. Again. Damage in a small package -- fragile. I haven't really seen any lists with them in 5th edition and it's not that they suck, they suffer from Starcannon syndrome now - everyone's got a cover save so your edge with this unit is effectively gone. Drop them and get something with more numbers.

This is pretty much QFT except for one part:

Zain60 wrote:1. NEVER leave a tank without spirit stones in a competitive list.

Always take Fire Prisms bone dry if you are playing competitive games, IMO. It's not worth putting points into that part of a competitive list.

I have to ask why...Fire Prisms, just like any other tanks, benefit from Holofields and Spirit stones. Especially if you like contesting objectives and ramming once the Prism cannon has blown off.

Araenion wrote:I have to ask why...Fire Prisms, just like any other tanks, benefit from Holofields and Spirit stones. Especially if you like contesting objectives and ramming once the Prism cannon has blown off.

There is two clear divisions here, naked for minimal cost maximum units and Holofields for survivability and higher point cost. To each their own on this as both have their benefits and drawbacks. Personally I'm pro holos and anti-stones, since I keep my prisms at a range that stone would rarely ever matter.

So what Im getting from a lot of you guys is to have more guardians. This is something that I wanted to do, but Im not sure how it should work. What weapon works best for them, and is a good size squad. At the same time is a warlock with conceal worth the points.

I know Tank Hunters isn't necessary, but I still want to keep it. I want all of my units to work in harmony, so I need to make sure that everything helps each other. Use the fire dragons to pop the land raider, while banshees shoot them. Or use the war walkers to pop a transport and the dark reapers to kill the people inside.

War Walkers can't get weapons Twin-Linked. It doesnt say anywhere that they become TL. It just says that we have to buy 2 weapons. In fact I don't even think you can get 2 of the same weapon. I don't know the best combination to put on them.

I overlooked the waver serpents twin linked ability. My biggest problem with a BL is how easy it is to miss, but with a relatively hard to kill thing like a wave serpent, I think it would work out quite well.


Im pretty sure that everyone in an artillery squad can fire the weapon. I want to put them far away and in cover. I know they're easy to kill, but their cheap enough to be a major loss if I lose them, especially when they can fire so far away.


My farseer is going to be with the banshees so 33% turns into 66%.


Dire Avengers. Im still not sure. It's just one of things I'll have to play and see how it goes from there.


And yeah I'll get rid of those storm guardians. They sound really cool, but I don't think they'll work put.


I love Dark Reapers, and I'm definitely going to keep them. It destroys MEQ's And I think it would do a lot of damage to tau crisis suits.


Some people said Fire Prisms. But I don't really like them.That's it. But does anyone know where to buy the Nightspinner. I heard that it comes with a fire prism box set, but I'm not sure.

Fire Prism box is the Night Spinner box, just matters how you assemble it. Owning a Night Spinner I love it, don't bank on it but it jacks with the enemy quite a bit.

War Walkers can't get twin linked but you can buy two of the same weapon. Common practice is dual of the same weapon on 3 walkers then hit the squadron with guide to make them all TL.

Always look at your serpents for what you want it to do and what it is transporting. If it's carrying anti-tank dragons, typically give it anti-infantry scatter lasers. If it's carrying anti-infantry like Dire Avengers then give it Bright Lance or EML depending on the role you foresee.

You can house rule all member of the artillery can fire if your friends are cool with it, but anything official or a stranger will prob have issue with it. If I bring D-Cannons for some reason I keep them in a 4+ area cover with a warlock with embolden.

Farseer with the banshees is rather a must. Typical mathhammer to look at is 6 banshees vs 10 marines. 15a s3 4+ to hit = 7 hits, with doom ~54% to wound so 3-4 wounds. 3a s5 3+ to hit = 2 hits, with doom ~88% to wound so 1-2 wounds. So statistically best case scenario you will down 4-6 marines. 6-4 marines will put a big hole in your squad in return, and this isn't even taking into account psychic hoods, wolf talismans, rune weapons, etc.

Reaper combo I'm a fan of when I play them for giggles, farseer with guide/fortune, exarch with tempest launcher and crack shot. Fortune helps them stay alive while you have a 2 blast barrage that rerolls to hit, to wound, ignores cover, and is AP3.

Storm Guardians, by most measures are far better than guardian defenders.

The reason being is that storm guardians simultaneously have more close range fire power, 2 flamers and 8 pistols > 9 catipults and a heavy weapon at close range (Defenders have that long range weapon, but its only ballistic skill 3, and you are wasting 80 points of shuriken weaponry if you only fire downrange). In addition to having better close ranged fire power, Storm Guardians are also better in assault, due to having pistol + ccw combo, they'll outperform Dire Avengers in close combat, especially with a warlock, who makes them even able to handle walkers in close combat.

Of course, Storm Guardians absolutly need a Wave Serpent to be effective, but with a Wave Serpent to put those flamers where you need em, Storm Guardians can put out comparable damage to a bladestorming Dire Avenger Squad, and be more effective in close combat if you need to charge, for about 25 less points.

I run a squad of storms and a squad of avengers in my lists, and the storm guardians regularly outperform my avengers.

I also agree that Banshees need to be in squad sizes of 10. I run them as well, and even with doom support a squad of 10 will still only eliminate about 7 Marines on a charge. T3 with a 4+ save isn't too happy about taking return hits.

Shurican cannons on war walker squads are awesome as well if you want discount heavy weapons. a squad of 3 walkers with shuri cannons is 120 points, and you can make up for the shorter range by outflanking them. Grab some rear armor shots / charge your opponents backfield units like lootas or heavy weapon teams. Walkers are fun units. I think giving them a scatter laser pidgeonholes em into a long range fire support unit. The shorter range and cheapness of the shuri cannon means you feel less bad about sending your walkers in on a flank and possibly tying up things in close combat. I often run a group of 2 of them with shuri cannons for 80 points and outflank em. Sometimes they shoot, sometimes they charge things, they have the flexibility to do whats needed, and are cheap as dirt to put on the table.

I'm not sure if money is an object or not, but generally, all the units you want to run- storm guardians, dire avengers, banshees, and fire dragons all need wave serpents. Defenders work better in a foot list, due to the much needed long range fire power, and are fearless with the avatar, but I'd consider switching to a more mech build

Sorry it's taken me so long to be reply. I've been relatively busy these past few days. From what I'm getting it seems that a mech list is a way to go. But I don't really like mech units that much, because just spamming vehicles seem unfair to me. I also don't have the money to be buying them anyways. I'll be getting 3 from the battleforces Im getting.

I understand what you're saying with Dire Avengers, but since my transports are going to be filled with more important units, I just flat out removed them.

As I look through this list, I think my biggest problems is my lack of troops. That's something I can change around later though.

Also does anyone know where I can get an official rules document for a nightspinner. It seems interesting, and I'd be willing to use it, but not if it's not tournament acceptable. I don't have white dwarf, but I'm hoping theres something like an Apocalypse spreadsheet or something I can get.

HQ
Avatar of Khaine – 155

Farseer
Spirit Stones, Guide, Doom, Fortune, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing,– 165

Elites
6 Fire Dragons 96
Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Lasers 115

10 Howling Banshees
Exarch, Executioner, War Shout, Acrobatic – 128
Wave Serpent, TL EML 120

Troops

15 Guardians - 190
Bright Lance, Warlock, Conceal


11 Storm Guardians - 140
Warlock, Enhance, 2x Flamer
Wave Serpent, TL Bright Lance 135

Heavy Support
3 Support Weapons - 130
Shadow Weaver, Warlock, Conceal

5 Dark Repaers.-175

3 War Walkers – 195
2 Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones


I'd like to get some shining spears too, but I'm not sure how they hold up. I like them but I feel that if I;m not able to annihilate the squad in the first turn, they'll be screwed. Does the STR 6 power weapon apply for the entire turn, or just the round I begin an assault? I could always use hit and run, but most of the time I won't be able to move more than 12 inches away, where they could just assault me and then get another round of shooting. And I wouldn't want to give the squad a special character either, because then they would lose hit and run.

The Warlock shooting trick with Support Weapons is well-known. He's included as an squad character, but not specifically disallowed from using the weapon the way normal Guardians or Warlocks in a Guardian Defender squad are. This is all covered in BRB, page 55, left column, The Unit, second paragraph.

Doesn't make those weapons worth taking, though.

This looks a bit better, a few things to consider.

Don't take 3 powers on your farseer. You can only cast 2 per turn. If you want 3, take Eldrad.

Run Destructor on the Storm Guardian's warlock. It adds immensely to their fire power. Enhance, while it does make Storm Guardians passable in close combat, just doesn't do enough, It doesn't increase their strength, and it doesn't give them plasma grenades.

Storm Guardians are a cool close range shooty unit because they actually take casualties better than Dire Avengers. The Squad's fire power is focused in the 2 flamers, and the destructor lock, so as long as you don't lose those, you can keep firing at full effectiveness despite losses. Destructor is a heavy flamer, those are good, run it instead of Enhance. Stormies are already better than most aspects at cc, but they shouldn't be there, keep em as a flamer unit, who can charge if thats what the situation demands. Since its only the flamers that are worth anything, taking more than 10 is not worth it. Take 10 with 2 flamers, and a warlock with destructor. Its their most effective build and its only 127 points.

Drop spirit stones from your War Walkers. The Vehicle squadron rules already lower stunned to shaken, so that upgrade technically doesn't do anything.

I would exchange your Guardian Defenders for 2 squads of either Rangers or Jetbikes. Both will perform better, and you need 3 troop choices at this points level.

Your banshees are way undercosted. That outload should run you 192 points.

If you are insistant on taking support weapon platforms, I think you'll be better served with D-Cannons.

Dark reapers, they NEED the exarch to do anything. Take them in a pack of 2 and the exarch with crack shot and a tempest launcher. Use em to fry squads of marines, with cover what it is these days, having 2 small blasts which ignore cover and re roll to wound will really put the fear of god in those Marines.

Ok, I have trimmed alot of the fat off of your list, and I propose something like this.

(155)Avatar
(145)Farseer- Doom, Guide, Spirit Stones, Both Runes

(80) 5 Fire Dragons
(100) Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon

(192) 10 Howling Banshees- Exarch, Executioner, Both Powers
(130) Wave Serpent- tl eml, underslung cannon

(127) 10 Storm Guardians + Warlock- 2 flamers, Destructor
(135) Wave Serpent- tl lance

(120) 5 Rangers- Pathfinders

(120) 5 Rangers- Pathfinders

(120) 3 War Walkers- 2 shuri cannons

(147) 3 Dark Reapers- Exarch, Tempest Launcher, Crack Shot

(180) 3 D Cannons + Warlock- embolden

Totals 1751 points. I'm too tiered to figure out how to make it drop below

That gives you a decent looking gunline with the avatar for fearless + counter charge, as well as some mechanized elements. Its not the most competitive list out there, but its a bit more streamlined.

Soulx wrote:In fact I don't even think you can get 2 of the same weapon. I don't know the best combination to put on them.

Sure you can. That's their main thing. Weapon redudancy for the kind of firepower no other Eldar unit can come close to. As a downside we get the durability of a sand castle on a Norway coast. Dual scatterlasers or dual EMLs are most common, though I prefer scatterlasers because the Walkers are BS3 making more shots generally better. Although 6 plasma shots into a squad of Ork boyz certainly sounds tempting, while being great against AV 10-12 vehicles.

As has already been said the stones on the war walkers arent really needed would drop them and put the points somewhere else.
For your lock powers if the defender squad stays I'd drop conceal, there should be enough cover for them to hide in or things between you and the squad firing at them to grant a cover save.
With the storm squad and I'll get lynched for this one, consider destructor instead of enhance, adding another template shot into the mix at a higher str and ap has been very effective for me. I find they got chewed apart anyways and were best served as a hold up unit to delay something for a turn.
Dire avengers not in a list is rare to see these days, the guide, doom and bladestorm thing really makes these guys very sick.
With the reapers while their weapons are annoying enough, they do need an exarxh in there for full effectiveness but be careful with them. I've had games where they ruled it popping anything and everything and some where they died to a hail of fire before a shot got off including one game where an infiltrated kroot squad took em down. Several saves failed later, lot of points gone and no shots :(. Also position them well where they'll be sitting all the game. Expect your opponent to give them a lot of hate simply because of how well they can do.
You've a few good fire magnets in the list between the dragons in transport, avatar (oh no something big and scary must kill it ) reapers and walkers your opponent will have to prioritise giving the units left untouched to do something.

akaean wrote:This looks a bit better, a few things to consider.

Don't take 3 powers on your farseer. You can only cast 2 per turn. If you want 3, take Eldrad.

Run Destructor on the Storm Guardian's warlock. It adds immensely to their fire power. Enhance, while it does make Storm Guardians passable in close combat, just doesn't do enough, It doesn't increase their strength, and it doesn't give them plasma grenades.

Storm Guardians are a cool close range shooty unit because they actually take casualties better than Dire Avengers. The Squad's fire power is focused in the 2 flamers, and the destructor lock, so as long as you don't lose those, you can keep firing at full effectiveness despite losses. Destructor is a heavy flamer, those are good, run it instead of Enhance. Stormies are already better than most aspects at cc, but they shouldn't be there, keep em as a flamer unit, who can charge if thats what the situation demands. Since its only the flamers that are worth anything, taking more than 10 is not worth it. Take 10 with 2 flamers, and a warlock with destructor. Its their most effective build and its only 127 points.

Drop spirit stones from your War Walkers. The Vehicle squadron rules already lower stunned to shaken, so that upgrade technically doesn't do anything.

I would exchange your Guardian Defenders for 2 squads of either Rangers or Jetbikes. Both will perform better, and you need 3 troop choices at this points level.

Your banshees are way undercosted. That outload should run you 192 points.

If you are insistant on taking support weapon platforms, I think you'll be better served with D-Cannons.

Dark reapers, they NEED the exarch to do anything. Take them in a pack of 2 and the exarch with crack shot and a tempest launcher. Use em to fry squads of marines, with cover what it is these days, having 2 small blasts which ignore cover and re roll to wound will really put the fear of god in those Marines.

Ok, I have trimmed alot of the fat off of your list, and I propose something like this.

(155)Avatar
(145)Farseer- Doom, Guide, Spirit Stones, Both Runes

(80) 5 Fire Dragons
(100) Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon

(192) 10 Howling Banshees- Exarch, Executioner, Both Powers
(130) Wave Serpent- tl eml, underslung cannon

(127) 10 Storm Guardians + Warlock- 2 flamers, Destructor
(135) Wave Serpent- tl lance

(120) 5 Rangers- Pathfinders

(120) 5 Rangers- Pathfinders

(120) 3 War Walkers- 2 shuri cannons

(147) 3 Dark Reapers- Exarch, Tempest Launcher, Crack Shot

(180) 3 D Cannons + Warlock- embolden

Totals 1751 points. I'm too tiered to figure out how to make it drop below

That gives you a decent looking gunline with the avatar for fearless + counter charge, as well as some mechanized elements. Its not the most competitive list out there, but its a bit more streamlined.

I appreciate the time you took to make this list, but there's a few things I don't like. But I really do like what you did with the shuriken cannons. And although I'm getting one less shot in place of a scatter laser, I get a lowered AP and much lower points.

So here's V3
And does anyone know if theres a downloadable rule sheet for the Nightspinner?

HQ
Avatar of Khaine – 155

Farseer
Spirit Stones, Guide, Doom, Fortune, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing,– 165

Elites
6 Fire Dragons 80
Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Lasers 100

10 Howling Banshees
Exarch, Executioner, Acrobatic – 187
Wave Serpent, TL EML 120

Troops

10 Guardians -100
EML

10 Guardians - 85
Shurkien Cannon

5 Pathfinders – 120

10 Storm Guardians - 132
Warlock, Enhance, 2x Flamer
Wave Serpent, TL Bright Lance 135

Heavy Support
3 Support Weapons - 130
Shadow Weaver, Warlock, Conceal

5 Dark Repaers.-197
Exarch, Crack Shot

3 War Walkers – 180
2 Scatter Lasers