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2010/09/16 15:22:02
Subject: 2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
I'm writing new lists between games and enjoying it almost as much the games themselves. As I quite like Dreadnoughts a lot (there's always at least one in my lists) I decided to write a list with as many in as possible while still being legal, which resulted in the list below. What I want to know now, is what you would take, knowing you were going up against this list in a 2000 points anilihation game.
That's a tough list to beat.
I'd take a mech Eldar army.
First, I'd take out the HS Dreads with the autocannons as they can hurt heavy skimmers badly.
Then I'd fly circles around the Dreads picking targets at leisure.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/16 15:40:56
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
First off that list isnt techically legal, you still only have one troop choice, the Death Company. The Death Company dreads work sort of like a dedicated transport in that they dont count against your force org chart.
I'm a big fan of dread lists, I tend to go with the normal Space Marine Codex though. Not haveing any scoring units meens that your only hope for victory would be to completly eliminate the opposing player by turn 6.
To counter this, I'd probably take the same 2000 point list I run at tournements. And exploit this lists biggest weekness, slow units and a lack of serious long ranged firepower.
2010/09/16 16:50:38
Subject: 2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
I'd bring my destroyer spam necrons. Without drop pods you'll never get those dreads close enough to pose a real threat and you auto-cannon dreads aren't all that effective against me.
Also, those death-company would get eaten up by my particle whip.
"You're right, we all know you are."
Tomb World Fabulosa 18/2/6 (Supreme conquerors of Dash's dark eldar )
2010/09/16 16:55:18
Subject: 2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
Catyrpelius wrote:First off that list isnt techically legal, you still only have one troop choice, the Death Company. The Death Company dreads work sort of like a dedicated transport in that they dont count against your force org chart.
Negative.
Troop Selection = Troop Selection.
Dreadnoughts do not = dedicated transports
2010/09/16 18:49:32
Subject: 2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
If I KNEW I was facing this (list tailoring = in my books), with my Space Wolves I'd probably go for multiple long fangs to form a fire base whilst plinking away at multiple dreads, supported by more mobile troops in the form of laserback/melta/grey hunters.
If you KNEW you were facing this list, I expect it'd be fairly easy to defeat, if you didn't you'd likely get ripped a new one. If you can I'd get some Libby Dreads in there though, there's a serious lack of speed and range as you're likely aware...
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
2010/09/16 19:10:07
Subject: Re:2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
DE dark lance spam. Kill autocannon dreads first, then run circles around you. are then just spam lots of melta with guard/marines. But thats only if I tailored a list for this. It will shock people when you pull this out though
What I actually wanted was more along the lines of example lists that would be taken to counter this one, though to be fair I wasn't that precise in my opening post - taking lascannons and melta weaponry against this list is a no-brainer, I'm more interested in how people would get that weaponry on the board. Thank you for all your answers though, particularly those who gave unit examples.
@Catyrpelius: If Death Company Dreads were like troop transports, taking Astorath to remove the limit on Death Company units would allows 36 of them to be taken. Obviously that point range is apoc territory so force organisation charts become moot, otherwise it would be very cheeky! Also, you mentioned the lack of scoring units - this list wouldn't be used outside of annihilation game types.
@Just Dave: Yeah, the point of the list is pretty much to get a "feth me! 11 Dreadnoughts!" response out of people. Trimming the Death Company to 20 and taking out a Death Company Dreadnought allows all 3 Furioso to be upgraded to Libby's and 2 Drop Pods to be taken, though if doing this I'd probably swap the Reclusiarch out for a Librarian with Shield and Unleash Rage to get a 3rd. I like this idea, list updated!
Spoiler:
HQ1: Librarian, Combi-Melta, Shield of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage - 110
T1: Death Company x20 - 400
T2: Death Company Dreadnought, Drop Pod - 160
T3: Death Company Dreadnought, Drop Pod - 160
T4: Death Company Dreadnought - 125
T5: Death Company Dreadnought - 125
E1: Furioso Dreadnought, Librarian, Shield of Sanguinius, Blood Lance, Drop Pod - 210
E2: Furioso Dreadnought, Librarian, Shield of Sanguinius, Wings of Sanguinius - 175
E3: Furioso Dreadnought, Librarian, Shield of Sanguinius, Wings of Sanguinius - 175
HS1: Dreadnought, Twin-linked Autocannon x2 - 120
HS2: Dreadnought, Twin-linked Autocannon x2 - 120
HS3: Dreadnought, Twin-linked Autocannon x2 - 120
Total: 2000
In the spoilered list I've got the pods split between the CC Dreads, my thinking being that in my first turn if a DC and a Libby come down close enough to one another, they will both be able to benefit from the Libbys shield in the subsequent shooting phase, have the 2nd DC Dread show when it shows and land where it could be put to best use, and the remaining 4 Dreads jump and run up the table - the 2 Libbys should ideally see combat by turn 2 or 3, and the DC Dreads by turn 3 or 4. Is this sound thinking or are other tactics more likely to be successful?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/17 01:31:45
Xeroen
2010/09/17 14:13:36
Subject: 2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
The Rune Priests would hopefully nullify some of the Libby Dreads and zap str7 from across the board, with one of them restricting deep-striking in the area.
The Long Fangs would be castled/protected by the Grey Hunters, Logan would give the long Fangs the Tank Hunter USR, giving them 2xStr10,3xStr9 at multiple targets.
The Lone Wolves would slow down the dreads and tie up the deep-strikers (hopefully) whilst everything else shoots them as much as they can.
That what you wanted?
If your list is legal, providing your opponent doesn't know he's facing you, it'll be utterly terrifying and effective!
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
2010/09/17 15:07:10
Subject: 2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
would it be possible to swap your furiosos for librarian dreads? Having some of your dreads move faster might help tie stuff up while your other dreads march over.
Like has been said, Eldar / Dark Eldar, who have lots of fast skimmers and the ability to take out your heavy support dreads fast with focused fire will give you a headache.
You should also note to watch out for Eldar Jetbike Squads, they can give cc dreads a really hard time, fly within 12 inches, the warlock throws a singing spear (and if they are shooting at rear the shuri cannon also takes meaningful shots) Then they use their assault move jump back 6 inches and you can't assault them. They can just kite you indefinitely as you are stuck with a 12 inch charge range... very frustrating for walkers indeed. Especially when you back them into a corner, and they turbo boost over your head and you're out of charge range again... lol
Meltavet squad in chimera w/ heavy hull flamer
155 points
Meltavet squad in chimera w/ heavy hull flamer
155 points
Fast attack:
Vendetta
130 points
Devil Dog w/ multi-melta
135 points
Devil Dog w/ multi-melta
135 points
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle Tank
150 points
Total, 2000 points.
Use the Vendetta to scout move to attract DC and DC dreads. Use Devil Dogs and Vendetta to kite DC and DC dreads around. Issue Bring it Down 4x testing at ld 10 on the lascannons. Use the LRBT, (which you have very little chance to do any damage to outside of CC, assuming you make it across the board,) to insta-kill DC and reclusiarch. etc.
Edit: That's based on your first list. I wouldn't tweak much based on your second list, though. Maybe drop the Psykers for an Inquisitor w/ mystics and keep the melta vets defensive.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/09/17 20:32:53
1850 12/2/4
Playin' GKs since it was an incredibly painful experience.
2010/09/17 20:42:20
Subject: 2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
The Rune Priests would hopefully nullify some of the Libby Dreads and zap str7 from across the board, with one of them restricting deep-striking in the area.
The Long Fangs would be castled/protected by the Grey Hunters, Logan would give the long Fangs the Tank Hunter USR, giving them 2xStr10,3xStr9 at multiple targets.
The Lone Wolves would slow down the dreads and tie up the deep-strikers (hopefully) whilst everything else shoots them as much as they can.
That what you wanted?
If your list is legal, providing your opponent doesn't know he's facing you, it'll be utterly terrifying and effective!
This is bang on what I wanted and more, since you detailed how you'd set up and use the list as well. Thanks!
Also, the list is 100% legal as far as I'm aware. Can't hold an objective for love nor money, but still legal.
Besper wrote:hmmmm.....
depends....
Would you say yes to the FAQ that allows me to use normal TH + SS on my Dark Angel terminators?
Spoiler:
If so i would take...
HQ - Belial /w TH + SS /w Company Standard
/w Apothecary
Troops
Terminators - TH + SS
Terminators - TH + SS
Terminators - TH + SS
Terminators - TH + SS
Terminators - TH + SS
Terminators - TH + SS
Elites
Terminators - TH+ SS
Terminators - TH + SS
with 95 pts to play with.
possibly a chainfist in a few units of terminators?
of course like i stated youd have to allow the FAQ for me to not hesitate taking this. not everyone will though.
Am I right in thinking you mean to take Storm Shields that provide a 3++ save instead of the 4++ save they normally give Dark Angels? I'd be happy to allow it if you were willing to pay the 10 point difference between a Dark Angels 5-man Term squad with TH + SS (215) and a vanilla/Blood Angels 5-man Term squad with TH + SS (225) for each unit with them.
Corennus wrote:but you have no troops that are scoring....
Not a problem - scoring units serve no purpose in the annihilation game type as there are no objectives hold or contest, annihiation is based on kill-points, of which I have 12 available, or 15 if the Drop Pods are counted for KP purposes.
akaean wrote:would it be possible to swap your furiosos for librarian dreads? Having some of your dreads move faster might help tie stuff up while your other dreads march over.
I put an updated list inside a spoler near the end of my second post where the Furioso's are given the Librarian upgrade and three Drop Pods are added.
bforber wrote:...
Use the Vendetta to scout move to attract DC and DC dreads. Use Devil Dogs and Vendetta to kite DC and DC dreads around. Issue Bring it Down 4x testing at ld 10 on the lascannons. Use the LRBT, (which you have very little chance to do any damage to outside of CC, assuming you make it across the board,) to insta-kill DC and reclusiarch. etc.
Edit: That's based on your first list. I wouldn't tweak much based on your second list, though. Maybe drop the Psykers for an Inquisitor w/ mystics and keep the melta vets defensive.
I was wondering when somebody would throw Vendetta out as a kite. What sort of priority would you give to the Rifleman Dreads using this list?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/17 20:56:44
Xeroen
2010/09/17 21:36:59
Subject: 2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
Xeroen wrote:I was wondering when somebody would throw Vendetta out as a kite. What sort of priority would you give to the Rifleman Dreads using this list?
Well, it depends on if it's pitched or spearhead, honestly.
If it's pitched, I'd go after them after taking care of the drop pod issue, (hopefully the inquisitor can designate someone to pop at least one before anything important happens.)
If we were playing spearhead, I'd probably go after your furioso librarians and not worry so much about the rifleman, especially if you had any idea of walking your furiosos next to your riflemen to grant them to cover save as well.
1850 12/2/4
Playin' GKs since it was an incredibly painful experience.
2010/09/17 22:12:54
Subject: Re:2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
Xeroen wrote:I was wondering when somebody would throw Vendetta out as a kite. What sort of priority would you give to the Rifleman Dreads using this list?
Well, it depends on if it's pitched or spearhead, honestly.
If it's pitched, I'd go after them after taking care of the drop pod issue, (hopefully the inquisitor can designate someone to pop at least one before anything important happens.)
If we were playing spearhead, I'd probably go after your furioso librarians and not worry so much about the rifleman, especially if you had any idea of walking your furiosos next to your riflemen to grant them to cover save as well.
I'd imagine in either type I'd aim to position the Riflemen for natural cover saves - Even with the Librarian upgrade a Furioso is still sees its most potential in close combat, hanging back to give a Rifleman a 5+ cover save would be a waste of 175 points IMO.
MikhailLenin wrote:I posted that list within week the BA Codex came out as I built that army with that week except I would run Mephiston.
The only army that even came close to demolishing that army was Nids with Lashwhips. Trigons and Tyrant with lash whips + 9 Hive Guard
2D6 Armor Pen with high str and forcing you to strike initiative 1 will just about stop you dead.
Wow, our lists are almost identical. Great minds think alike and all that, eh? I've read the thread you started regarding tabling armies - it was an interesting read. I had already thought of 'nids as a big threat to the list, having used Carnifex's as anti-armour back when I first played 4th - I'd forgotten about lashwhips though. Since you have a great deal of familiarity with it already, what list would you take against it?
Xeroen
2010/09/18 03:27:32
Subject: Re:2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
There is no good solution to nids if they are built with 9 Hive Guards and Lashwhips tyrants + guards and Trygons with FC, that is if you are taking a DC centric list.
In only matters how you play the army.
Firstly, I would have to run Meph in that army since he can actually take out MC pretty quickly if they dont have lash whips. The trick is too avoid lash whips with him, not necessarily Shadows of the Warp, just lash whips and bonesabres. Try to get him in combat with Hive Guards, Tryguns, Units of 2 or less Carnifex, or Venomtrhopes.
Secondly, prioritize your shooting targets, if you are running 3 Rifleman dread, Venomthropes if they dont have an Alpha Warrior with them, then Hive Guards. If none of those are alive go for the Lashwhip carriers.
Thridly, Tyrants with Guards and Lashwhips, always try to get multiple Dreads in combat with the unit and making sure both dread arent in Base to base with the Tyrant thay way he can only kill 1 a combat phase.
Lastly, your DC unit has to be very cautious of Paroxis, it will destroy it.
Those are the only tips I could come up right now.
2010/09/18 04:10:42
Subject: 2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough again, what I meant is what list would you take against the 10-Dread liist I'm proposing or the 9-Dread list you run with.
Xeroen
2010/09/18 17:43:02
Subject: 2000 points of Blood Angels Dreadnoughts - what would you take against it?
Xeroen wrote:Sorry, I wasn't clear enough again, what I meant is what list would you take against the 10-Dread liist I'm proposing or the 9-Dread list you run with.
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
Tomb World Fabulosa 18/2/6 (Supreme conquerors of Dash's dark eldar 
) 
in my books), with my Space Wolves I'd probably go for multiple long fangs to form a fire base whilst plinking away at multiple dreads, supported by more mobile troops in the form of laserback/melta/grey hunters.
The Sanguinius: because you wished your primarch rocked this hard! 
Doublewing DA - 3000Pts
Eldar - 1000Pts
Blood Angels - 500Pts
Sammael would happy slap Belial 
1850 12/2/4
I've read the thread you started regarding tabling armies - it was an interesting read. I had already thought of 'nids as a big threat to the list, having used Carnifex's as anti-armour back when I first played 4th - I'd forgotten about lashwhips though. Since you have a great deal of familiarity with it already, what list would you take against it?