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I have been analyzing my games, and have come to a conclusion. I am pretty good at selecting troops, outfitting them, and general stuff in this game. What I lack, however, is tactics. While I do win a few games, I am not winning as much as I would like because my tactics are a bit off. So, I was thinking, haven't decided yet but I am thinking, of Alpha Legioning myself: Holding back some forces so as to stretch my tactical "genius" to the max. So, I am debating on doing things like playing 1500 pt games and showing up with 1250 pts to play. Hopefully, while my W/L Ratio would go down the tubes right off the bat, I would eventually become a tactical genius befitting of Chaos.

However, some people might consider this unsportsmanlike/cheating. They could see it as beating a cripple, so to speak, and as such isn't as fulfilling of a victory. Also, I would be "denying" them kill points. Naturally, I would have to ask per person per game, but I was just hopeing to get a few opinions on weither or not this is a good idea.

So, thoughts?

By tactics, I mostly mean manouvering, deployment, stuff like that. I am quite skilled, or at least adequate, in making lists. I think.

I wouldn't care too much. Part of your issues is that you are playing CSM and as far as codexes go, theirs is a little on the gak side.

HERESY! And not the good kind, either!



Thanks for your honesty.

I second the motion that the chaos codex is gak.

I would cringe at the idea of my opponent having a 250 point handicap. I play to challenge myself. I don't like using terms like "beating a cripple," but that's kind of what it is. It's like racing against a man with one leg. Even if you win, you're not going to feel particularly good about it.

I'd probably allow it if you explained that's what you're doing though ("that" being attempting to train yourself to work with fewer resources, therefore more efficiently use the forces at your command). Because it's a pretty cool idea.

For practice and such, it is actually something of a hinderence as you are not being able to use everything that would be available.

What I have done for practice is this. Create a list. Sit down with a friend and explain what is in it and why. Ask said friend to create a list tailored to beat mine. Play a few games.

Repeat as necessary.

Personally I wouldn't mind, in fact I'd probably quite enjoy the game as I'd be routing for you to actually beat me and succeed in your quest for greatness!

To get round the whole points handicap (and any possible moaning from your opponent) you could also consider putting more of your units in reserve. This changes the tactics available to you quite considerably. Specially if your reserve rolls as bad as mine!

Actually this isn't a bad idea. My store's annual 40k league ran the week 5-10 at 1850, guy played with only 1750 as he thought it was the same values from the year before. Did pretty good *aside the fact he played guard* against his opponents.

SaintHazard wrote:I would cringe at the idea of my opponent having a 250 point handicap. I play to challenge myself. I don't like using terms like "beating a cripple," but that's kind of what it is. It's like racing against a man with one leg. Even if you win, you're not going to feel particularly good about it.

I'd probably allow it if you explained that's what you're doing though ("that" being attempting to train yourself to work with fewer resources, therefore more efficiently use the forces at your command). Because it's a pretty cool idea.

Thanks. I am admittingly worried about people who wouldn't want me to handicap myself because of your reasons, and if it was too much of a problem I wouldn't do it.

kirsanth wrote:For practice and such, it is actually something of a hinderence as you are not being able to use everything that would be available.

What I have done for practice is this. Create a list. Sit down with a friend and explain what is in it and why. Ask said friend to create a list tailored to beat mine. Play a few games.

Repeat as necessary.

Might have to do that too later on. I figure it like this: If I have less that has to do more, then eventually I would be capable of doing more with less. Thanks for the input, and a good idea to also train meself.

Emperors_Champion wrote:Personally I wouldn't mind, in fact I'd probably quite enjoy the game as I'd be routing for you to actually beat me and succeed in your quest for greatness!

To get round the whole points handicap (and any possible moaning from your opponent) you could also consider putting more of your units in reserve. This changes the tactics available to you quite considerably. Specially if your reserve rolls as bad as mine!

Thanks, though if my opponent doesn't consent I probably just wouldn't do it. No point becomeing amazing at the game if it's not fun for both sides, ya know?

Outside of a KP based game, I wouldn't care.

KPs wise, it's an advantage, imo, if you know how to play.

Magnalon wrote:Outside of a KP based game, I wouldn't care.

KPs wise, it's an advantage, imo, if you know how to play.

Not necessarily! A further handicap could be splitting squads so that even at 1250 points he's fielding the same number of KPs as his opponent!

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I wouldn't care too much. Part of your issues is that you are playing CSM and as far as codexes go, theirs is a little on the gak side.

The Night Stalker wrote:I second the motion that the chaos codex is gak.

Agree, so if I were you I would ask your opponents if you could have 250 points extra.

Come on, CSM aren't that bad. Sure the codex can be a bit boring but they are still competitive. If you played DH or necrons (or possibly Tau) I could understand that being the reason you don't do so well but CSM should do ok. You probably just need a bit of practice with the list.

I hink this is an ok idea, and would have no problem doing it, although it would help if you explained why. As far as asking for permission it isn't strickly neccessary. The points limit is a maximum value so you could turn up with 500 points in a 2000 point game and still be legal. Nowhere does it say you must use as many points as possible.

What 4M2A says is true. Where do you draw the line for being short of points? My Space Marines are 10 points under and it's OK, but not 100 points under? 200 points under? I dropped my Land Raider during deployment and it shattered, I still want to play even though I will be 250 points short. It's a game at the end of the day No point in getting overly stressed about an imaginary balance factor.

If you cant find people willing to play against you with less points, just take a LR, reserve it and *forget* to roll for it every turn

Good idea! I'm in the same position. I'm good at making a list, but I just wander around the board and play the coward the whole game because I've got 4 S 8 AP 1 shots chasing after my rhinos, so I leave the rhinos to protect the models inside, then I get yelled at because I don't know how to play? wtf do you mean? I don't know how to play because I don't use stale-ass tactics? MOVE 12, disembark, POP SMOKE....Why? Why is that the only thing you can ever do with rhinos? What if I just want to leave them to get some shots in? Is that wrong? Frag you!


Anyway, cool Idea. I really need to do this so I stop deepstriking in stupid places

I love what you did in your first post lol... alpha legion...

It's great to see that some CSM players are rising above the horrendous codex and trying to be good players, but don't alpha legion yourself too much there (youre no good to the chaos gods if you are loyal) either:
A) (prefferable) Work out your tactics over and over and over and over and over and over in your head, read your friend's codexes, and PRACTISE!!!! ALOT!!!
B)Start off sort of Alpha-Legion-ish, lacking maybe 50 pts, then become more and more Alpha Legiony untill you have a single chaos spawn VS 1500 pts (and you win)
C)Pray to Tzeentch to Bolster your pathetic tactical genius (not advised - you read the part about daemonic pacts, right? plus, you may end up like a dust bucket)

The problem with chaos is that so much of it is over priced that by the time you get to the 2000 point level your basically playing at a 300 point handicap compared to newer codexes when you compare what your paying for various abilities to what other armies pay to do the same thing.

If you want to learn tactics, start playing battles involving 500pts of Imperial Guard Infantry on both sides, and work your way up.