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As Marines Vs. Orks is it more important to Rapid fire them or to deny them the charge by charging?

There is no simple answer. There are always mitigating circumstances.
* How big is the unit that you can charge with? ( full strength, 3 left, etc)

* What are the units that you would charge with? ( sterngaurd, IG, etc )

* How many orks are there?

* Is there a warboss and/or PK Nob in the ork mob?

* How close are your other forces? (ie, could you get assistance next turn)

All of those can change the answer to the quesiton.

Generally speaking, I will almost always want the charge. Orks are just too nasty on the charge to not take it away from them. The only time I wouldn't is if my Marines are small enough that they're going to get slaughtered in one round of combat no matter what and I want my opponent to devote a unit to finishing them off.

I think the size of the mob makes a big difference. Remember if you rapid fire them, and they charge you, you still get to swing before them so the mob is sufficiently small, you can finish them off before they get to strike with a rapid fire.

But, the bigger the mob gets, the more likely that charging yourself is the better option, just remember those Bolt Pistols!

Also consider that if you line up to rapid fire you may be able to limit their movement during their turn. You certainly don't want to charge, loose combat, and end up giving then bonus movement on your turn.

TheBlackVanguard wrote:As Marines Vs. Orks is it more important to Rapid fire them or to deny them the charge by charging?

its much more important to deny them the charge by charging. orks get alot their strength through the charge. Without it they're no match for marines. Basically just guardsmen with an extra attack. AF

This depends on a great many factors. For example:

Are the targets in cover? If so, can you potentially circumvent that via movement? If so, is that movement desirable? If not, do you have flamers or other cover-ignoring weapons?

Are you guaranteed to get the charge off? If both sides are in difficult terrain, it's possible that you can be 12" away but not vulnerable to a charge.

Would you be better served in your current position, or do you want to move in the direction of the enemy unit?

Is the enemy susceptible to morale? If so, can you potentially wipe them out in one assault turn? If so, do you want to win assault immediately, or over time?

Do you have other units that can assault the same target?

Do you have heavy weapons? If so, are your heavy weapons effective? It might be worth it to stand still and fire a heavy bolter, missile launcher, or plasma cannon, but it almost certainly wouldn't be worth it to do the same with a lascannon or multi-melta.

There are many, many more questions, and you kind of have to play and get experience in order to start evaluating everything in this way.

Always charge. Always.

Its very simple. You get +1 attack for 1 to 10 guys. Your opponent doesn't get +1 attack, +1 Str for 1 to 30 guys.

Best solution is to shoot your bolt pistols then charge in. You are effectively getting 3 S4 attacks per marine and your denieghing the orks +1 attack and the strength bonus.

The only two times you wouldn't charge is if you can't make it (because of DS or drop pod or whatever, or there is high risk that you wont make the charge due to difficult terrain checks generally (4+ or more inches). Or you really need to fire that heavy weapon.

Also remember that shooting twice with an S4 Ap5 weapon is virtually the same as charging into close combat (6+ armor save doesn't do a whole lot). For doing roughly the same amount of damage, you save yourself a lot of hurt in the near future.

Like others have said, it's really if you think you might get wiped on your own charge or if they've already expended their waaaugh, or have only really small mobz left that you'd ever want to reconsider.

But rapid fire hits on 3+ and CC hits on 4+. Just something to consider.

1 bolt pistol shot + 2 close combat attacks = .75 dead orks
2 boltgun shots = .666 dead orks

Close combat actually does MORE damage, AND it stops them from getting their waaaugh-ey nonsense.

Its very good to charge since it makes them do what you want instead of the other way around. If a bunch of boys are on your side of the table the last thing you want is them getting off a multi-assalut because they waaagh'd if you assault them it limits what the ork player can do and hopefully will give you time to maneuver the rest of your army.

More important than how many orks you kill when you charge them is how many marines they dont kill when they get charged. orks blow on defense. depriving them of the charge is half the battle.

If there are less than 20 orks, rapid fire with your 10 marines, and you should kill a good amount of them (around 6 dead orks) But you still have 14 angry orks knocking on your doorstep. If they pass LD, your gone. Orks on the charge fight at the same initative as space marines, so your gunna eat 42 attacks, 21 hit, 10 wound, 3 dead marines. the marines fight at the same time, 12 attacks, 6 hit, 3 wound, 2 dead orks

Marines loose combat.

On the other hand if you fire one bolt pistol and charge into the remaining 19 orks, you fight first.
22 space marine attacks (sarg has 2 base, 1+ for pistol, 1+ for charge) 11 hit, 6 wound, 5 dead orks.

Orks fight back with only 28 attacks at strength 3. So, 14 of those attacks hit, 4 wound, 1 dead marine.

It is now 9 marines on 14 orks. Odds are in marines favour.

Also, marines win combat.

Basicly, as others have said, its situational--but charging is usually better.

However, I would like to mention a third option... run away. There will be times when you wont do enough damage no matter what. In these times, run away, and through cover if possible. Prevent the orks from killing you while you lead them on a Benny Hill style chase sequence.

If your up against roughly 25ish Boyz+ a Nob then the answer is, it doesnt matter you are equally boned anyway. The math have been done in Sternguard thread if you want to check it out.

tedurur wrote:If your up against roughly 25ish Boyz+ a Nob then the answer is, it doesnt matter you are equally boned anyway. The math have been done in Sternguard thread if you want to check it out.

that was with stern guard who have better shooting and an extra attack.

My advice for tactical marines is Rhinos. ... saw quite a nice explanation diagram some where ...

... there we go as you can see the orks have charged to open the rhino. This does leave them rather bunched up. As well as flamers think also of Blast weapons from another unit. Only thing to make sure off is the rhino is roughly 12" away from the ork so the can't get all the way round.( Also that one of the doors is facing away from them)

Actually, the math was done for standard tacticals. Atleast the math I did. So I guess it would have been moer appropriate in this thread .

But yes, make sure to employ Rhinos and use them to block movement for the orkses

That diagram is awesome. Some one needs to do a whole thread of those with visual examples of different tactics since writing that out takes so much longer and is way more prone to being misunderstood.

I would say this is situational. If rapid firing can net you enough wounds to take the unit below 12 I would go for it, otherwise bolt pistol/flamer then charge is the way to go IMO.