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So, after playing without hammernators for a while I caved in a bought a LR and some Hammernators so now Im trying to figure out a 1500pts list containing these elements. This is my idea so far. Very up close army but a little range aswell. Atm its actually a 1490 pts list. Should I upgrade the Rhinos to stock RBs or what ideas do you have?

Libby (NullZone+Avenger) - 100

Troops:
10xTacticals (ML+Flamer+Combi-Flamer) - 180
Rhino - 35

10xTacticals (ML+Flamer+Combi-Flamer) - 180
Rhino - 35

HS:
2xVindicators (Blades) - 240

ACLC Pred - 120

Elites:
5xTH&SS Termies - 200
LRC (MM) - 260

FA:
MM/HF Speeder - 70

MM/HF Speeder - 70

This list looks pretty decent. My only concern is that one predator sitting around by itself might kill one tank and then immediately die when you opponents maneuver for side shots or the outflankers show up. A dreadnought of several different load outs (2X autocannons, MM/CCW, Ironclad) could probably replace it for less points and advance with the rest of your army while still being able to pop tanks.

Yeah, I was considering changing it into a Rifelman dread. They are usually better vs transports and that is what I intend to use the ACLC for. However I would like to field them in pairs and that would mean droping the MM/HF Speeders. If I do this then I will switch the flamer and combi flamer into MGs so would loose out on horde controll but gain transport/MC killing ability...its a though choice

Rifleman dread is ideal for popping transports so if thats what you wanted the pred for id say thats a good trade. I wouldn't drop a speeder though since lone speeders get picked off fast. The dread will be ok even if there is just one because he can hang out with the rest of your army. Your whole army looks like it wants to move to the middle of the board on turn one and every thing in the list except the pred could do that so id say the rifleman is a fair trade.

Yeah, I think you should swap the ACLC Pred for a Rifelman Dread, against AV 12 a TLAC is just as good as a TLLC against AV 10-11 its even better. And since you want to hunt Transports with it Id go with the Rifelman. For the last pts Id probably upgrade a Rhino to a RB or simply give a Rhino Blades.

I'd personally make the Librarian into a Chaplin, and give him terminator armor, then stick him with the terminators.

I would suggest mixing up the Terminator Assult squad alittle bit. Haveing all TH/SS means that your opponant is always going to get his attacks in. Throw in a pair of LC or two.

You have alot of anti vehicle power in this list I'd think about trying to work in another tacticle squad.

A chaplain with terminator armour will give you a 4+ inv save model that can make terminators reroll failed hits.

A terminator librarian on other hand will give you Null Zone and Avenger possibly.

Means when you go up against HQ and other stuff with Inv Saves (DO NOT TAKE TERMINATORS AGAINST HIGH AV VEHICLES) they have to reroll passed Inv saves.

its up to you. but personally Chaplain works with LCs, Librarian with Thunder Hammers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
First off a Chaplain List:

Terminator Chaplain w/ Combi-Melta
Digital Weapons
145

ELITES

Terminator Assault Squad (5 man)
x 2 TH/SS
x 3 LC
200
DT: Land Raider (your choice of variant) w/ Multi-Melta
260

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Flamer
Missile Launcher
DT: Rhino
205

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Flamer
Missile Launcher
DT: Rhino
205

FAST ATTACK

Landspeeder
Heavy Flamer
Tornado Multi-Melta
70

Landspeeder
Heavy Flamer
Tornado Multi-Melta
70

HEAVY SUPPORT

Vindicator
115

Vindicator
115

Vindicator
115

1500


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now a librarian list:

Terminator Librarian w/Storm Shield
Null Zone & Might of Ancients
140

ELITES
Terminator Assault Squad (5 man)
x 2 LC
x 3 TH/SS
200
DT: Land Raider w/ Multi-Melta
260

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Melta Gun
Missile Launcher
DT: Rhino
210

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Melta Gun
Missile Launcher
210

FAST ATTACK

Landspeeder
Tornado Heavy Flamer
60

Landspeeder
Tornado Heavy Flamer
60

HEAVY SUPPORT

Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
120

Predator
Lascannon Sposnsons
120

Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
120

Ok, first off. A Libby is vastly superior to a Chaplin in a list as this. Null Zone bosts both the Vindicators and the Hammernators. Re rolling to hit is just as good NullZone and it only works when you charge. On top of this you also get a much valuable hood.
Secondly, if one does take a Chaplin then Cassius is always better than a Chaplin in Termie armour.

Personally, while the lists propossed by Croennus isnt bad, I think your first list is better than the two lists posted here. But as I said before, change the ACLC Pred into a Rifelman dread. Not only is it better/just as good vs transport, it can also be used to protect your tacticals who are keeping your home objective ect.

Rifleman Dread = 2 T-L autocannons.

= 4 shots at Str 7 AP3. you can reroll to hit.

Cost: 125

Autocannon/Lascannon Predator:

2 shots at Str 7 AP 3
2 shots at Str 9 AP 2

Cost: 120

5 point difference. but you get 2 lascannons with a predator...

Armour:

Dreadnought: 12 12 10

Predator: 13 11 10

Ok so the dreadnought has more armour on its side, but less on its front.

Predator has less side protection, but better front. If you're careful with how you move you should always have your front armour facing the biggest threat...

I can't see a reason for taking a rifleman dread over a predator tedrur. can you please say why it can protect tacticals better than a predator?

Autocannons are AP4 btw. You'll find that Dreadnoughts and Predators have the same armour average, just benefit of Dreadnought is it can move full distance and fire all weapons, while Pred can move and fire one. Plus Dreadnought doesn't get bogged down in terrain.

List looks alright, though that's because it's alike my 2k S.M list . It lacks a bit of melta TBH and I've found one shot combi flamers really aren't worth 10 points when a normal flamer costs 5 points or is generally free.

I find the difference between 1 or two flamers to be monumental, not to mention the difference between 2 and 4 but I guess YMMV.

As mercer said, a Rifelam dread will get to fire all its weapons all the time where as a Pred quite often get to fire a single weapon. A Predator is better if you have mroe of a gunline army with something that can protect it, but in this list

A Dread can tarpit units without a PF indefinetly and units with a single PF can most likely be tarpited for several rounds. A Predator will get curb stomped as soon as anything gets into CC with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
vs AV 11 a Rifelman is just marginaly worse than a ACLC pred that gets to fire both lascannons and the AC.

ok that I accept thank you.

I'd forgotten you can't fire all weapons on predators since mine stay stationery most of the time to fire everything all the time!

Still....dreads without CC weapons kinda loses the point of a dreadnought.

Catyrpelius wrote:I'd personally make the Librarian into a Chaplin, and give him terminator armor, then stick him with the terminators.

30 points for a 2+ save on a model that only costs 100 to begin with is a bit much - I wouldn't bother with terminator armor unless you're going to teleport them in. There's no reason a character in power armor can't ride in a land raider with terminators.

Problem there is if the squad is called upon to make 5 Inv Saves (say they get unlucky enough to be in a Battlecannon blast).
Bye bye librarian with Null Zone.

Why would the Libby leave the LR?

Can a Land Raider take an Independant Character AND a squad?

I guess the real question would be if you can remove a IC from a squad while in transport.

Catyrpelius wrote:I guess the real question would be if you can remove a IC from a squad while in transport.

Um.. yes? Why couldnt you...

Jabbdo wrote:

Catyrpelius wrote:I guess the real question would be if you can remove a IC from a squad while in transport.

Um.. yes? Why couldnt you...

Indeed, why wouldnt I?

Thanks for the help with the list, gonna go with the Rifelman dread I think.

Youve got to be careful taking either the pred or the dreadnought....

people take alot of hurty guns that will eat through your armour like sugar paper if there smart enough.

Do you intend to take this as a venerable dread or bog standard dread? cos you need to consider the points value otherwise.

Regards

Its not like the Dread is the only AV unit in his list, and if you take a look at the original list youd see that he doesnt have pts for a Ven.Dread.
Ven.Dread is best used on CC dreads.

And even then Ironclads are better in CC for less points.