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 docdoom77 wrote:

Alendrel wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:


Exactly what strategic advantage to you gain by spreading your boyz out 1 to 2 inches apart, now that templates don't exist?

Larger foot prints to deny deep strikes, fewer models needed to chain back to aura characters or objectives or what have you, better ability to deny enemy movement options.

You know, minor things.

Most footslogging Ork armies can barely fit their army where they need it. That reasoning makes sense for a smaller model count, but not for big Ork army.

The reasoning still holds. And it's not like its "120 Boyz or No Boyz".

 Grimskul wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Evil sunz walkers would move an average of 11.5" a turn if they advance, then wartrike waaagh.

They are seriously fast. If you were using assault weapons, they could sling them without penalty.

It makes Rokkit and KMB Kanz much more palatable to take, especially with the expected points reductions coming our way.

Rokkit kanz are definitely about to be a thing.

That is no joke.

Rokkits are sort of haha lol maybe it will hit. With a unit flying down the board with can openers at 11 inches a turn longing those things out at BS4, that is not just silliness any more.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Evil sunz walkers would move an average of 11.5" a turn if they advance, then wartrike waaagh.

They are seriously fast. If you were using assault weapons, they could sling them without penalty.

It makes Rokkit and KMB Kanz much more palatable to take, especially with the expected points reductions coming our way.

Rokkit kanz are definitely about to be a thing.

That is no joke.

Rokkits are sort of haha lol maybe it will hit. With a unit flying down the board with can openers at 11 inches a turn longing those things out at BS4, that is not just silliness any more.

Yeah, makes me kinda regret painting my Kanz as deffskullz now to be honest.

I just recreated GWs Speedfreaks list and it only came to 1,570 points (replaced wartike with warboss on bike 90pts and buggies with classic 43pts buggies). I'm a little concerned now... if the stuff went doen in points then how did it end up at 2k points unless each buggy was like 120+ pts each. Unless they maxed top upgrades on everything.

 lolman1c wrote:
I just recreated GWs Speedfreaks list and it only came to 1,570 points (replaced wartike with warboss on bike 90pts and buggies with classic 43pts buggies). I'm a little concerned now... if the stuff went doen in points then how did it end up at 2k points unless each buggy was like 120+ pts each. Unless they maxed top upgrades on everything.

Those new buggies will probably all be between 80 and 120 points. The Wartrike will definitely be over 90 pts.

that list did look thin to me. 3x10 boyz and a few other things? A bit worried also.

Yeah, after seeing that list...as much as the new buggies look amazing and the rules seem ok I think we might have a lot of duds on our hands.

 nflagey wrote:
By the way, not sure it was ever mentioned here, but the cost is apparently $156.25 in the US (according to my FLGS) ...

Yikes.. My FLGS was spitballing in the 150 range and I was hoping they were wrong (too high, not too low)

This PROBABLY prices me out of the box set..

 porkuslime wrote:

 nflagey wrote:
By the way, not sure it was ever mentioned here, but the cost is apparently $156.25 in the US (according to my FLGS) ...

Yikes.. My FLGS was spitballing in the 150 range and I was hoping they were wrong (too high, not too low)

This PROBABLY prices me out of the box set..

I'm quite surprised too ... Naftka was reporting it would cost 90 pounds, so a bit less than $120 ...

Two sets of 3 bikes cost $82.50
Let's say each buggy is ... $50?
Add then the buildings ... that would bring us to at least $200

So we'd save about 25% on a box like that.

Am I correct?

Translating between PL and points is a bad idea. The old stuff they put into the list would be already at a wopping 78 PL now, or between 1152 and 1479 points. In their example they pay only 59 PL, thats MUCH cheaper and comes closer to the ~20 points per PL calculation GW seems to do. It seems 2 Trikes and the 5 buggies cost 40 PL, which should be about 800 points. But it could be as low as 500 points. No one knows till the codex is out.

Part of PL is upgrades. Consider nobz, in the index they are 11 PL but the base unit costs 17ppm.

The issue is they have a lot of possible upgrades, you can give them each kmobi skorchas and powerklawa, and ammo runts for well about three times their base cost. Their PL cost doesn't change. Trying to workout points from PL doesn't work if an unit has upgrades, they often have an inflated PL based on how many upgrades they could take.

I heard $180 Canadian for Speed Freaks.

Kendo wrote:
I heard $180 Canadian for Speed Freaks.

Yeah it was confirmed. Pretty raw deal for us up north, even with online discounts.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
I just recreated GWs Speedfreaks list and it only came to 1,570 points (replaced wartike with warboss on bike 90pts and buggies with classic 43pts buggies). I'm a little concerned now... if the stuff went doen in points then how did it end up at 2k points unless each buggy was like 120+ pts each. Unless they maxed top upgrades on everything.

Those new buggies will probably all be between 80 and 120 points. The Wartrike will definitely be over 90 pts.

Yeah, using 90 for trikes and 43 for buggies is way shortchanging the cost of the new trikes and buggies. Trikes are going to be close to 120 based on the listed PL, and the PL 7 Squigbuggy will cost even more than that.

 ikeulhu wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
I just recreated GWs Speedfreaks list and it only came to 1,570 points (replaced wartike with warboss on bike 90pts and buggies with classic 43pts buggies). I'm a little concerned now... if the stuff went doen in points then how did it end up at 2k points unless each buggy was like 120+ pts each. Unless they maxed top upgrades on everything.

Those new buggies will probably all be between 80 and 120 points. The Wartrike will definitely be over 90 pts.

Yeah, using 90 for trikes and 43 for buggies is way shortchanging the cost of the new trikes and buggies. Trikes are going to be close to 120 based on the listed PL, and the PL 7 Squigbuggy will cost even more than that.

Isn't the wartrike rumored at 120pts?

 TedNugent wrote:
Rokkit kanz are definitely about to be a thing.

That is no joke.

Rokkits are sort of haha lol maybe it will hit. With a unit flying down the board with can openers at 11 inches a turn longing those things out at BS4, that is not just silliness any more.

I have 6x Rokkit Kans and 5x Rokkit Grot Tanks, so getting a kick out of that.

So, we're a little over halfway through "Orktober" - has a single model actually been released for sale yet?

 docdoom77 wrote:


Personally I'm not very competitive, so I'm going to spend the hundreds of dollars to rebase my my boyz and I'll hopefully be happy with how they look and with them no longer tipping over so much. I can see how competitive players would be extremely concerned though.

I bought 200 32mm bases from eBay for $24 so hopefully you wont need hundreds of dollars! The time investment is more of a pain, but for me Orks are THE army. I don't spend much these days on other forces, using Kill Team as an excuse to paint something different. I don't play competitively either so I could care less about the advantages/disadvantages - I like the look of 32mm bases so decided to rebase my collection. I'm pretty happy with most of the new stuff, though I was really hoping for a plastic weirdboy and kommandos (still hoping for those, even though it seems like we would have had the leak by now).

 Ouze wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Rokkit kanz are definitely about to be a thing.

That is no joke.

Rokkits are sort of haha lol maybe it will hit. With a unit flying down the board with can openers at 11 inches a turn longing those things out at BS4, that is not just silliness any more.

I have 6x Rokkit Kans and 5x Rokkit Grot Tanks, so getting a kick out of that.

So, we're a little over halfway through "Orktober" - has a single model actually been released for sale yet?

Not a single ork release unless you count the killteam commander...

 Ouze wrote:

So, we're a little over halfway through "Orktober" - has a single model actually been released for sale yet?

No, but really, so what. They've been talking about Orks more than any release this year that I can remember, since Death Guard maybe? The models are coming, the rules are coming, and both look pretty great. At this point, I no longer care about the technicalities of when Orktober is Orktober.

The Deathwatch Commander is just a re-release of Grukk, right? So, not to move the goalposts but I think that's still a no; he's been available for a long time I believe.

 porkuslime wrote:

 nflagey wrote:
By the way, not sure it was ever mentioned here, but the cost is apparently $156.25 in the US (according to my FLGS) ...

Yikes.. My FLGS was spitballing in the 150 range and I was hoping they were wrong (too high, not too low)

This PROBABLY prices me out of the box set..

Ditto. Was interested in it as a stand-alone game. 150 clams for 2 buggies, six bikes, some scenery and rules is just not a good value to me.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
2cp to make a boyz unit 5+ save...really?
'Ard Boyz has always been a 4+....wtf....waste of cp...

Would you rather pay CP, a thing that you get simply for the list you bring...or actual points?

I am surprised about the 5+ save though.

CP are a resource just like points. Armies that effectively use points in list creation and CPs during the battle are the armies that win.

It's a total waste of CP which is the same as wasting points on bad units.

That's assuming orks will be hungry for CP or will be like IG with more CP than they know how to use(without even regenarion). With 18CP for basic ork army easily(without considering possibility brigades might be viable) they certainly will have plenty of those.


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 TedNugent wrote:
I think you guys dissing the trike klaw are missing the whole fact that -1 to hit was not mentioned.

That means hitting on 2's. Then reroll to wound at strength 7 with 5 attacks.

It's good weapon but not for tank hunting. Go chase characters with it. Not vehicles. If you want vehicle hunting it's power klaw and even that's bad.

you lot realize the only reason ard boyz ain't 4+ is due to blood axes' trait right? ... who in the F hell will think 3+ on 7pt boyz ain't broken

 Nightlord1987 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Stormboyz i'd say:
big unit and the one most likely to get bodies into CTC where a better save is more useful, vs shooting you should already be using KFF and pain boyz

Wow hadn't even considered it in Storm boyz....

If I could get ahold of 30 rokkit packs (3rd party or scratch built) that could be waaaaaghsome! I'm sure there's a 3rs party bits site that has rockets or missiles that would fit the bill.

Problem with stormboyz is you can get max 3 units. Even with 5++ and painboy for 1st turn(during which you get to close combat) those are easily blown apart even by sub-optimal gunline as I found out this tuesday.


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 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Don't think orks are supposed to tower over space marines though...

Yeah, ork boyz are supposed to be about the same height as a regular human when they're all stooped over (which is proper orky posture) so a Space Marine should be about as tall as a Nob (although not as bulky).

I hope they use the Primaris reset to put an end to scale creep.

Which means they should be bit shorter than the space marines. If they were same size as primaris(head taller than marines and thus 2 heads taller than humans) that would be ridiculous.


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 Daedalus81 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/18/18th-oct-building-a-speed-freeks-armygw-homepage-post-2/

New article up on the community page

They say the list comes up to about 2000 points, PL so that checks out. Maybe there's a way to extrapolate the worth of some of the units by it still though?

A Trukk is 3PL instead of 5 from the index, that's a nice start
Nobz 7PL instead of 11
Nob with banner is the same
Warbikers are 4PL instead of 5
The Morkanaut is 15PL down from 18
Big Mek down to 4PL from 5
Boyz are 4PL down from 5 (don't know what's up with this)
The Kustom Boosta-blasta, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakka Scrapjet are 5PL
The Shokkjump Dragsta & Deffkilla Wartrike are 6 PL
The Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy is 7PL (WHAT the hell GW?)

But but I thought they raised the cost of boyz to sell buggies?! There couldn't possibly be a nuanced explanation for it!

And look how little boyz there are. 7 pts boyz are crap. The boyz were already bad in index vs index and now relative gap increased it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Boys may have gone up while their upgrades went down, have to wait and see.

Boyz don't have upgrades. Nob does, I guess, but I don't think it would be enough to offset a boyz price hike. But I guess we will have to see what happens.

Nobz with stuff like kombi weapons and of course big shootas and rokkits. So yeah maybe you can get loaded up with power klaw and kombi skorcha nob with 3 rokkits cheaper. Weeee! Those are actually detriment to the squad so not much of a help. What good is fancy gear when you get blown to bits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
:::table flip:::

I just made 6 custom movement trays with sheet metal underneathe and every boy with a magnet on the base. two fit perfect in KFF bubble, with all the boyz being able to be deployed by simple placing the tray down. When they get packed the magnets hold them to the tray. thats 200 magnets fething wasted.

Why? Keep them on the old bases. If some TFG complains just show middle finger and enjoy their tears. TFG's deserve no mercy anyway.


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 jhnbrg wrote:

Rockfish wrote:
Why? They just said 25s are fine?

I dont think this will be up to GW, it all depends on how powerfull boyz on 25mm bases will be compared to 32mm.

They were mediocre before and got hit by big nerf...Don't think power is going to be a problem.


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 Crimson Devil wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
I know they said its fine, but if I want to go to an event (which I do enjoy competing in) I cant use more boyz if they are on 25s. Also, boyz look markedly better on 32s.

Just get 200 32mm metal discs to put the models on when you need to and use the 25mm bases when you can.

Well. That idea would kill my movement trays(which I have spent hundreds). So if somebody in tournament tries to force that...Well I can do it but then against that TFG I will play suuuuuuuuuper slow and we'll get max 2 turns. Take that TFG


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nflagey wrote:
By the way, not sure it was ever mentioned here, but the cost is apparently $156.25 in the US (according to my FLGS) ...

That random number? GW doesn't do those. It's 90£ which is tooth and claw. Check what that costs. 150$ is what games-workshop.com tells you. If your FLGS charges you more than GW direct maybe order from GW direct!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alendrel wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Alendrel wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:


Exactly what strategic advantage to you gain by spreading your boyz out 1 to 2 inches apart, now that templates don't exist?

Larger foot prints to deny deep strikes, fewer models needed to chain back to aura characters or objectives or what have you, better ability to deny enemy movement options.

You know, minor things.

Most footslogging Ork armies can barely fit their army where they need it. That reasoning makes sense for a smaller model count, but not for big Ork army.

The reasoning still holds. And it's not like its "120 Boyz or No Boyz".

Actually it is. 30-60 boyz will be shot off the board in turn. Even sub-optimal gunline will blow 50+ orks in a turn so if you have token unit or two you can count those being dead first time enemy gets to act.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lolman1c wrote:
I just recreated GWs Speedfreaks list and it only came to 1,570 points (replaced wartike with warboss on bike 90pts and buggies with classic 43pts buggies). I'm a little concerned now... if the stuff went doen in points then how did it end up at 2k points unless each buggy was like 120+ pts each. Unless they maxed top upgrades on everything.

Buggies look to be 5-6 PL each so that's 100+ pts each. Were you using old buggy costs for those? These are NOT replacement models for old buggies. Rules don't match, point costs won't match, sizes way off. You were expecting to get tougher shootier buggies for same price? Okay GW wants to sell other stuff rather than boyz but that would be ridiculous. And also we already know PL's of new buggies which are twice+ bigger than 43 pts would mean.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:
that list did look thin to me. 3x10 boyz and a few other things? A bit worried also.

Well with boyz suffering price hike you need to drop them a lot to fit room for non-boyz. Not surprised at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nflagey wrote:
I'm quite surprised too ... Naftka was reporting it would cost 90 pounds, so a bit less than $120 ...

DO NOT use conversion rates to determine prices. We have 90£ reported. Assuming that's true then find on games workshop UK site product that costs 90£. I save time and say tooth&claw is one. Then change site to US. Check item. See it's 150$. THAT is the price.


GW has their own fixed rate and that's been years. Thus trying to extrapolate price from conversion rates is doomed to fail. You need to check price bands.

With current exchange rates UK has it cheapest, euro has next, US is more expensive and Japan/New Zealand/Australia are screwed. There's reason why in Finland for example unless you support your FLGS you order stuff from UK 3rd party stores. And there's reason why GW has forbidden UK stores from selling outside EU area. They would prevent to EU if they could but EU rules say "screw you" for that idea at least until next spring UK is cheapest by far for EU customers(FLGS's just can't compete with the exchange ratio savings)

I guess we will just have to wait for the codex or more leaks to start to get a better idea of how to build a list going forward.

..soo .. all the new vehicles also appear to be on bases ?

Do we think this is a new thing -- it's not required in 8th is it ? -- , just an aesthetic thing or perhaps related to the gameplay of speed freeks ?

I thought it might be because they have a significant melee profile and it makes it easy to measure perhaps.

 reds8n wrote:
..soo .. all the new vehicles also appear to be on bases ?

Do we think this is a new thing -- it's not required in 8th is it ? -- , just an aesthetic thing or perhaps related to the gameplay of speed freeks ?

The practical reason is probably that it would be a nightmare to figure out which spike or exhaust pike to measure to.

In general, GW seems to be putting smaller vehicles on bases now, while larger ones remain unbased - for example, in the Death Guard range the blight haulers could easily have gone without bases, but plague burst crawler have no base.

Once GW eliminates the silly "can't touch this" rule for measuring in combat, measuring to bases rather than hull is all upside.

 Jidmah wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
..soo .. all the new vehicles also appear to be on bases ?

Do we think this is a new thing -- it's not required in 8th is it ? -- , just an aesthetic thing or perhaps related to the gameplay of speed freeks ?

The practical reason is probably that it would be a nightmare to figure out which spike or exhaust pike to measure to.

Closest one? That's how 8th ed works.

Once GW eliminates the silly "can't touch this" rule for measuring in combat, measuring to bases rather than hull is all upside.

If you measure base to base then you end up with stompa's that can't hit stuff 1.5" off the ground.

the main thought with the 'you can use whatever bases you like' is there any cunning tactics you can use with a big unit of boyz with a mix of smaller and larger bases