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A friend of mine asked me to ask around and see, He just bought a crap ton of space marine bikes on ebay at a steal of a price, i think he got somewhere around 60 models that are a mix of most Bikes and some attack bikes...and So he wants to build an Apoc level White Scars army. I dont remember the days of Chapter Approved, but he insists there were rules in Chapter Approved for White scars that are waaay better than the current Codex Space Marines Kahn List available. He said WS Bikes got an extra attack, more Bikes in a squad, etc etc...But the Question came up...Can you use Chapter Approved Rules Instead of Current Codex Rules? i know for Apoc you may use old models and the rules that go with them..i dunno

would just like someone elses opinion on it, because if you cant use the chapter approved rules, he wants to know so he can "set the army up" the correct way

Kenny

KenStorm989 wrote:A friend of mine asked me to ask around and see, He just bought a crap ton of space marine bikes on ebay at a steal of a price, i think he got somewhere around 60 models that are a mix of most Bikes and some attack bikes...and So he wants to build an Apoc level White Scars army. I dont remember the days of Chapter Approved, but he insists there were rules in Chapter Approved for White scars that are waaay better than the current Codex Space Marines Kahn List available. He said WS Bikes got an extra attack, more Bikes in a squad, etc etc...But the Question came up...Can you use Chapter Approved Rules Instead of Current Codex Rules? i know for Apoc you may use old models and the rules that go with them..i dunno

would just like someone elses opinion on it, because if you cant use the chapter approved rules, he wants to know so he can "set the army up" the correct way

Kenny

In short, you have to decide between you.

There is no "Correct" answer.

Most people will say you must use the latest rules, however, especially since there has not bee "Chapter Approved" for many years now, and all that material is based off non-5th edition rules.

It's apoc, anything goes as long as everyone agrees to it ^_^.

SamplesoWoopass wrote:It's apoc, anything goes as long as everyone agrees to it ^_^.

Which is no different to normal games of 40K. And by itself, this sort of comment is of no help whatsoever when someone is asking about the actual rules. Please see the sticky at the top of the forum regarding Apocalypse rules queries.



For the actual question, there is nothing outside of tournament-specific rules packages that says that players have to use the most recent rules. So in your own games, you could theoretically use any codexes or supplements that still 'fit' the current ruleset.

In practice, the older the rules you're trying to use, the more they're going to need to be tweaked to fit the current rules.

There is a common assumption amongst many players that once a new codex is out, the old one becomes invalid. While Chapter Approved is a little more vague, I think you would find that most players would consider the old Chapter additions to be out of date, as they were written for a previous edition of the game, and intended for a previous version of the Marine codex.

So, ultimately, if you're looking at this for home games, or games with a specific, regular group of people, your best bet is to discuss amongst the group which rules you are all going to consider valid for use. If you're looking at it for pick-up games (which Apocalypse really isn't suited to), you would probably be better off sticking with the current Marine codex to save potential drama.

I really apperciate the Quick reply and help guys

just had a look at my copy of chapter aproved 2003 no white scars and i don't have the older ones but... if he actually owns the right one and actually brings it, it's perfectly ok outside of tournaments as long as the opponent (you in this case) agree

The chapter approved white scars list was written for 3rd edition.

If you guys are okay with him using it then it's okay. I suggest you all have a good read of it and see what you think.

insaniak wrote:

SamplesoWoopass wrote:It's apoc, anything goes as long as everyone agrees to it ^_^.

Which is no different to normal games of 40K. And by itself, this sort of comment is of no help whatsoever when someone is asking about the actual rules. Please see the sticky at the top of the forum regarding Apocalypse rules queries.



For the actual question, there is nothing outside of tournament-specific rules packages that says that players have to use the most recent rules. So in your own games, you could theoretically use any codexes or supplements that still 'fit' the current ruleset.

In practice, the older the rules you're trying to use, the more they're going to need to be tweaked to fit the current rules.

There is a common assumption amongst many players that once a new codex is out, the old one becomes invalid. While Chapter Approved is a little more vague, I think you would find that most players would consider the old Chapter additions to be out of date, as they were written for a previous edition of the game, and intended for a previous version of the Marine codex.

So, ultimately, if you're looking at this for home games, or games with a specific, regular group of people, your best bet is to discuss amongst the group which rules you are all going to consider valid for use. If you're looking at it for pick-up games (which Apocalypse really isn't suited to), you would probably be better off sticking with the current Marine codex to save potential drama.

So, ultimately, what we said was identical but my explanation was shorter and easier to read. Very interesting, very interesting indeed.

I voted no, however...

Your friend could use the blank formation template and create a cross between the Khan list in the current SM codex and one of the Ork formations, Kult of Speed comes to mind. That way, current rules are used and costs work better with current edition balance. Probably more fun anyway!

Homer

SamplesoWoopass wrote:So, ultimately, what we said was identical ...

What we said was not even close to being identical.

If you really feel the need to discuss this further, take it to PM.

Only if he'd be ok with me using BBB Eldar.

I'd be inclined to tell him to use the most recent ruleset for his army. If he wants to use the old Index Astartes list, then he'd at least need to use the Space Marine codex for which the list was written, which had more expensive bikes anyway, IIRC.

I voted yes, as I realized a while ago (when i was running my own bike list) that most people wouldn't mind if you just used the old CA rules, called them a "Datasheet" and made the cost 200 points plus models.....