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Hey guys, I'm currently working on a 1500 point for Eldar, and was hoping to get some advice/critiques on my list. Any advice/ideas/criticism are more than welcome. Here's what I'm looking at for a force right now.

HQ

Prince Yriel
Fareseer- RoWard, SS, Fortune, Doom

Elites

8 Striking Scorps- Exarch, Scorpion's Claw, Shadowstrike, WS w/ Lance, Stones
8 Howling Banshees- Exarch, Executioner, Acrobatic, WS w/ Shuricannon, Stones

Troops

10 Dire Avengers- Exarch, Bladestorm, WS w/ Shuricannon, Stones
3 Jetbikes

Heavy

Fire Prism w/ Holo
Fire Prism w/ Holo

Thanks.

You have very little killing power in this list.

Make one of those elite choices into a troop choice.

In terms of tournament play you have a couple of problems with this list:

Prince Yriel

He is very good, but only really justifies his points at higher game levels. At 1500 it's hard to fit him in, and he doesn't really do anything for this list. Possible suicide to kill a MEQ squad with his monocle. You should drop him completely.

Fareseer- RoWard, SS, Fortune, Doom

If you drop Yriel, you don't "really" have a target for fortune. Drop SS and Fortune, keep Doom + RoWar. Very good HQ choice.

Not a bad elite choice. They can kill smaller units, or weakened units that have been shot at. But the rest of the list doesn't shoot very well. And if they kill the unit they charge they will be open to be shot down. Also with WS 3 the WS and lance is a point sink that isn't really worth it. EML should give you the same if not better mileage considering the fact that the blast template can kill hordes better.

8 Striking Scorps- Exarch, Scorpion's Claw, Shadowstrike, WS w/ Lance, Stones

As above. Very good strike force, but require some more support from the rest of the list. Shuri Cannons are good on WS though.

8 Howling Banshees- Exarch, Executioner, Acrobatic, WS w/ Shuricannon, Stones

First off, the jetbike survivability is not very high, so if they get killed early you only have one troop remaining. But that troop is required to weaken units for your Scorpions and Banshees to be more effective. So they will have to be up front, doing some shooting. This leaves them open to be shot at and killed. The DA and WS configurations are good.

10 Dire Avengers- Exarch, Bladestorm, WS w/ Shuricannon, Stones
3 Jetbikes

Heavy

I prefer leaving my prisms vanilla, but the stones are a good upgrade.

Fire Prism w/ Holo
Fire Prism w/ Holo

General Comments:

The list lacks some firepower in terms of killing tanks. Fire prisms are good, but with cover they can't be guaranteed to kill any of your oppnents tanks. Maybe investing in some fire-dragons (IMO the best elite choice) will help in that department. Also this army will not be able to deal with any horde, they will just overrun you. I can see that you want to use melee units, and I don't really want to say you need to change the focus of your list. Maybe look at a bigger footslog army, then you can use scorpions and banshees in a list where they fit in more. Avatar, Guardian, Yriel, Banshees, Scorpions, and some shooting, maybe rangers.

/humble opinion

Well, two HQs is a bit much in 1500 pt games.
The troop section needs improvement.
I'd go for 2 full squads of bladestorming DAs in Serpents with stones and scatter lasers.
Backed up by a Doomseer, this should be your core.

Scorpions and Banshees is a bit much. This combo was good in 3rd ed, but no longer.
I'd go either for Scorpions or for Banshees.
Scorpions in a Serpents can outflank, while Banshees require to doom the enemy unit; otherwise, they are dead meat.
Prisms could be taken naked. This would give you some options for including FDs just in case a LR shows up.

Thanks for the ideas and tweaks for the list. Here's where I'm at right now.

HQ

Farseer- RoWard, Doom

Elite

8 Striking Scorpions- Exarch, Scorpion's Claw, Shadowstrike, WS w/ Shuriken Cannon, Stones
6 Fire Dragons- WS w/ Shuriken Cannon, Stones

Troops

10 Dire Avengers- Exarch, Bladestorm, WS w/ EML, Stones
10 Dire Avengers- Exarch, Bladestorm, WS w/ EML, Stones
3 Jetbikes- Shuriken Cannon

Heavy

Fire Prism w/ Stones
Fire Prism w/ Stones

Downgraded the HQ so I just got a doomseer to put in support for the DAs. The scorps I'm still planning on keeping in reserve to flank and hit targets of opportunity where they come in. The small dragon squad will be running anti-tank/ terms, and the DAs will be around to capture objectives and provided shooting support. Same idea for the jetbikes, long range support with the cannon, and capping objectives endgame. The prisms will also be going for targets of opportunity, light vehicles and MEQ squads with the combined shot. I'm most likely going to run a spearhead with the DAs and dragons to focus in on where I can hit the enemy the hardest with the most success, and then branch out from there. Once again, ideas/opinions/criticism more than welcome. Thanks guys.

NuGundam63 wrote:Thanks for the ideas and tweaks for the list. Here's where I'm at right now.

HQ

Farseer- RoWard, Doom

Elite

8 Striking Scorpions- Exarch, Scorpion's Claw, Shadowstrike, WS w/ Shuriken Cannon, Stones
6 Fire Dragons- WS w/ Shuriken Cannon, Stones

Troops

10 Dire Avengers- Exarch, Bladestorm, WS w/ EML, Stones
10 Dire Avengers- Exarch, Bladestorm, WS w/ EML, Stones
3 Jetbikes- Shuriken Cannon

Heavy

Fire Prism w/ Stones
Fire Prism w/ Stones

Phy and Wuests' replies were pretty good so I'll try not to rehash. I'll take this new list on its own.

You have 2x EML, 2x Prism cannons, and the FD squad for high strength/high armor shots, which is good. First, I think 8 Scorpions is probably too many for what they will accomplish while outflanking. Try 6 - 7 max. The jetbikes are there to grab objectives, but really you have all armored targets except those 3 bikes. They will get pwned or they will take one wound and very possibly go very fast off the board-- even if you reserve them and try to steal something from the opponent. I would drop them and make your two heavy hitter fire prisms holoprisms and upgrade your Farseer with at least RoWitnessing, perhaps even guide as a second power, also, i hope you are dualcatting your DA exarchs. 2 Troops in Serpents is enough at 1500 really although some may disagree. DAs are a shotgun. You roll up and blow enough of a hole in something so it isn't a threat, or you wait until they're close, whip it out and shoot their face off. You aren't really going to use them in some tactical marine way shoving them at your enemy trying to 'do' something aggressive.

I want to emphasize that I am not a holo-prism kind of guy, I just don't think without a lot of pruning you will get another unit out of this list tweaking, so it's not a bad use of the points you have spent on 3 jetbikes. Holos does make them way more resilient.

I would like to make an honorable mention for a storm guardian squad as opposed to one of your Dire Avenger Squads

(127) 10 Storm Guardians w/ warlock- 2 flamers, destructor

This comes out to be about 25 points cheaper than a full Avenger squad, gives an edge against enemies in the ever present cover, is more flexible in close combat and it takes incoming fire better. What I mean by the last part is that if you can keep alive your 2 flamers and your warlock the squad still shoots at full effectiveness, whereas if you lose 4 or 5 Avengers your fire power drops significantly. I run them in every game, and its rare that they don't out perform my Avengers.

I think you should take Banshees instead of scorpions. Look at your list, what are striking scorpions going to kill that 2 blade storming avenger squads won't? With the growing commoness of fnp, its helpful to have something besides small arms equivalents in your lists (aside from the prisms obviously)

All that said, in the name of competitoin I would drop them entirely for more dragons and upgrades somewhere else. this is a tournament list afterall, banshees and scorpions are fun and good units but they are not bleeding edge competitve.

akaean wrote:I would like to make an honorable mention for a storm guardian squad as opposed to one of your Dire Avenger Squads

(127) 10 Storm Guardians w/ warlock- 2 flamers, destructor

This comes out to be about 25 points cheaper than a full Avenger squad, gives an edge against enemies in the ever present cover, is more flexible in close combat and it takes incoming fire better. What I mean by the last part is that if you can keep alive your 2 flamers and your warlock the squad still shoots at full effectiveness, whereas if you lose 4 or 5 Avengers your fire power drops significantly. I run them in every game, and its rare that they don't out perform my Avengers.

Akaean, you love your guardian squads. I am currently running a 3 DA unit list, and have been testing swapping the one DA squad for the Guardian/Lock/Flamer squad. This post does nothing but agree with what Akaean says. Guardian squads are equal if not better than one of you DA squads. And it makes your army "look" different in terms of not having only 3 DA squads and 2 FD squads on the tabletop.

My only gripe with guardians/storm guardians is the range on their weapons. Just manage the unit though, and you will get the same/better result as the DA's.

I'm running 2x DA (1 full, 1 minsquad) and a Tri-flamer squad. I find that the heavy flamer/flamers and even the spear can accomplish things that DAs have a hard time doing. I usually get almost laughed at for suggesting it, but if you recognize that although they are both 'anti-infantry' tools in essence, you have to play them very differently.

akaean wrote:I would like to make an honorable mention for a storm guardian squad as opposed to one of your Dire Avenger Squads

(127) 10 Storm Guardians w/ warlock- 2 flamers, destructor

This comes out to be about 25 points cheaper than a full Avenger squad, gives an edge against enemies in the ever present cover, is more flexible in close combat and it takes incoming fire better. What I mean by the last part is that if you can keep alive your 2 flamers and your warlock the squad still shoots at full effectiveness, whereas if you lose 4 or 5 Avengers your fire power drops significantly. I run them in every game, and its rare that they don't out perform my Avengers.

Amen to this my storm Guardians have never disappointed me and are always included as the first troop choice in any Eldar list I make

Been doing some more tweaking again, and thanks to the advice you guys gave me, I think I have a list that I can start playtesting. I dropped the scorpions in favor of banshees, as I think their hit will be harder for a smaller unit, especially with a doom thrown on top. Also, I somehow managed to squeeze in a unit of storm guardians, as from what I've been hearing, everyone loves em.

HQ

Farseer- Runes of Warding, Doom

Elite

6 Howling Banshees- Exarch, Executioner, WS w/ Shuriken Cannon, Stones
6 Fire Dragons- WS w/ Shuriken Cannon, Stones

Troops

8 Dire Avengers- Exarch, Bladestorm, WS w/ EML, Stones
8 Dire Avengers- Exarch, Bladestorm, WS w/ EML, Stones
10 Storm Guardians- Lock, Destructor, 2 Flamers, WS w/ Shuriken Cannon, Stones

Heavy

Fire Prism
Fire Prism

Right now with this list, I'm sitting at 1492 points. I'm gonna start rolling with these guys once I get my storm guardians together, and I'll keep my progress posted. Thanks guys.

if you notice your Fire Prisms not last past turn 2-3 drop the stones on everything and one dragon and that will get you the points for the holofields. You really won't notice a difference on the serpents

I have my doubts about that banshee configuration. You really need to flesh out that squad, even with doom support 6 banshees will struggle to make the splash you need them too.

I agree with Blue Dagger on the spirit stones issue. I know that some players swear by them. I used to run them, now I don't and I certainly haven't noticed a difference.

I would drop all your spirit stones and try to get 10 members in your banshee squad

loosing the stones will get you three extra banshees and 2 points extra for a total of 10 points left if you add your 8 extra points.

For five points, acrobatic gets you counter attack for your whole squad. I played a game against chaos yesterday, where my 6 banshees were charged by a larger unit of khorne bezerkers. With counter attack, I managed to wipe them out in a turn.
It's really a points worthy upgrade, especially if you have 9 banshees.

Then you have 5 extra points to spend to get to 1500. I wouldn't usually recommend War shout because it often isn't very useful, but might as well spend the points.