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So, LOS on non-vehicles is drawn from its eyes. But, what about units without eyes? The only examples I can think of off the top of my head are Wraithguard and Wraithlords. I imagine they see from somewhere on their head, but if they're standing behind a high wall (REALLY high in the case of the Lord ), how far up does that wall have to go before it blocks their LOS?

Grakmar wrote:So, LOS on non-vehicles is drawn from it's eyes. But, what about unit's without eyes? The only examples I can think of off the top of my head are Wraithguard and Wraithlords. I imagine they see from somewhere on their head, but if they're standing behind a high wall (REALLY high in the case of the Lord ), how far up does that wall have to go before it blocks their eyes?

Yes, RaW Wraithlords, Zoanthropes and others cannot ever draw LOS.

In fact, anything with a helmet cannot draw LOS, since there are no eyes on the model. Nor can any Xenos models draw Los at all, since they do not have eyes (they have xenos organs that are similar in funtion to eyes, but they are not actually good proper Terran "eyes", they are "gargleflax" or something).

Gwar! wrote:

Grakmar wrote:So, LOS on non-vehicles is drawn from it's eyes. But, what about unit's without eyes? The only examples I can think of off the top of my head are Wraithguard and Wraithlords. I imagine they see from somewhere on their head, but if they're standing behind a high wall (REALLY high in the case of the Lord ), how far up does that wall have to go before it blocks their eyes?

Yes, RaW Wraithlords, Zoanthropes and others cannot ever draw LOS.

In fact, anything with a helmet cannot draw LOS, since there are no eyes on the model. Nor can any Xenos models draw Los at all, since they do not have eyes (they have xenos organs that are similar in funtion to eyes, but they are not actually good proper Terran "eyes", they are "gargleflax" or something).

Hmmm... shooting looks to be against the rules. If only we can find a way to make CC against the rules and then we could finally solve this War thing once and for all!

So, since RAW looks to be broken for this, how do people typically play it?

From the head?
There's nothing to prevent you from modelling to your advantage, so tack on eyes anywhere you like. Or just paint an eye on a banner two inches taller than the model.

"The head" covers a lot of ground for a wraithlord or a zoanathrope.

It would be nice if they'd thought about this and made a little note in the codex entry for eye-less models.

Gwar! wrote:In fact, anything with a helmet cannot draw LOS, since there are no eyes on the model. Nor can any Xenos models draw Los at all, since they do not have eyes (they have xenos organs that are similar in funtion to eyes, but they are not actually good proper Terran "eyes", they are "gargleflax" or something).

Bad Gwar! *hits with rolled up newspaper* no...

Arctik_Firangi wrote:From the head?
There's nothing to prevent you from modelling to your advantage, so tack on eyes anywhere you like. Or just paint an eye on a banner two inches taller than the model.

Except you would find yourself with no-one in your FLGS to play against.

Scott-S6 wrote:"The head" covers a lot of ground for a wraithlord or a zoanathrope.
It would be nice if they'd thought about this and made a little note in the codex entry for eye-less models.

Or simply put an extra bit in the BGB...
LOS is measured from the models eyes (models without eyes measure from where the eyes would be, if this is not apparant, measure from the center of the head)

Although Zoan's do have eyes (or at least one version of the model did/does) but they were unable to look forward, simply turn the model side-on and your golden.

For Wraithlords, the old ones had a big fat gem pretty much centred on the head, I'd go with that.

For everything just follow the bit in italics above. If someone tries arguing you cannot fire at a tournament call over a TO who will swiftly back-hand them with the BGB.

dayve110 wrote:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:From the head?
There's nothing to prevent you from modelling to your advantage, so tack on eyes anywhere you like. Or just paint an eye on a banner two inches taller than the model.

Except you would find yourself with no-one in your FLGS to play against.

Oh that's why we ignore the 'eyes' rule. Herp derp.

Gwar! wrote:

Grakmar wrote:So, LOS on non-vehicles is drawn from it's eyes. But, what about unit's without eyes? The only examples I can think of off the top of my head are Wraithguard and Wraithlords. I imagine they see from somewhere on their head, but if they're standing behind a high wall (REALLY high in the case of the Lord ), how far up does that wall have to go before it blocks their eyes?

Yes, RaW Wraithlords, Zoanthropes and others cannot ever draw LOS.

In fact, anything with a helmet cannot draw LOS, since there are no eyes on the model. Nor can any Xenos models draw Los at all, since they do not have eyes (they have xenos organs that are similar in funtion to eyes, but they are not actually good proper Terran "eyes", they are "gargleflax" or something).

...and that is why i have a close combat army, i don't need eyes to stab you in the back.


oh the fun you can have with RAW

Scott-S6 wrote:"The head" covers a lot of ground for a wraithlord or a zoanathrope.

It would be nice if they'd thought about this and made a little note in the codex entry for eye-less models.

I'm sure they'll get around to it when Eldar get a new codex in 7th edition.

In fact, anything with a helmet cannot draw LOS, since there are no eyes on the model. Nor can any Xenos models draw Los at all, since they do not have eyes (they have xenos organs that are similar in funtion to eyes, but they are not actually good proper Terran "eyes", they are "gargleflax" or something).

Moral of the story is always model eyes onto your models ;P

Technically speaking, the RAW states "eyes", not specifying "human eyes". If you want to nit-pick the rules, the requirement is for the model to have eyes, "Eyes are organs that detect light, and convert it to electro-chemical impulses in neurons."

No model has eyes, unless you want to use fluff as a base for RAW.
If you do use fluff, then most models have eyes. Including most xenos. They might call it something else, but being Swedish I can tell you that we don't call eyes "eyes" normally over here, either. And since we're using fluff, well... helmets do not present a problem - normally.

How 'bout fateweaver he's blind in the fluff but has two heads so thats 4 eyes.

And he also has We are legion which is described as

"The Daemon is host to many tortured souls and different limbs, heads, eyes and leering faces appear and vanish on every part of its ever-mutating body"

*Head explodes*

I want to put one of those big silly googley eyes you get at craft stores right smack in the middle of my wraithlord's head now.

Guitardian wrote:I want to put one of those big silly googley eyes you get at craft stores right smack in the middle of my wraithlord's head now.

Or put two of them where eyes should be on all of your Wraithlords and Wraithguards.

A man puts an army like that on the tabletop, you know he ain't afraid of anything.

I think the one big cyclops eye would look funnier though.

"Raw only models with visible eyes can shoot" ... This fails as no models have eyes they are all lumps of plastic and or metal. If we are going to be abstract and imagine eyes then I will imagine eyes on the heads of all the models: at the very least the sensory equivalent.

Tri wrote:"Raw only models with visible eyes can shoot" ... This fails as no models have eyes they are all lumps of plastic and or metal. If we are going to be abstract and imagine eyes then I will imagine eyes on the heads of all the models: at the very least the sensory equivalent.

THANK YOU.

"The head" covers a lot of ground for a wraithlord or a zoanathrope.

It would be nice if they'd thought about this and made a little note in the codex entry for eye-less models.

Serious. Fail. You need a clip behind the ear for posting that.

Gwar! wrote:

Grakmar wrote:So, LOS on non-vehicles is drawn from it's eyes. But, what about unit's without eyes? The only examples I can think of off the top of my head are Wraithguard and Wraithlords. I imagine they see from somewhere on their head, but if they're standing behind a high wall (REALLY high in the case of the Lord ), how far up does that wall have to go before it blocks their eyes?

Yes, RaW Wraithlords, Zoanthropes and others cannot ever draw LOS.

In fact, anything with a helmet cannot draw LOS, since there are no eyes on the model. Nor can any Xenos models draw Los at all, since they do not have eyes (they have xenos organs that are similar in funtion to eyes, but they are not actually good proper Terran "eyes", they are "gargleflax" or something).

the sad thing is he's serious

gwar draw back the curtains and tak a look at the real world for a secound
if you ever told me my wraithlord could not shoot because it had no eyes i would slap you upside the head


seriously just use the middle of the head no one will complain

I dont think that Gwar was being serious. It's an excellent counter argument to the OP.

Gwar's RAW > OP's RAW

croggy wrote:the sad thing is he's serious

Gwar! You've changed. I didn't know you had an alter ego named croggy!

...or are you psychic?

BloodThirSTAR wrote:I dont think that Gwar was being serious. It's an excellent counter argument to the OP.

Gwar's RAW > OP's RAW

What? I didn't have an argument, I asked a question.