Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I ask this on Dakka because there is a pretty wide distribution of ages in this group and it's not all wann-abe intellectuals or jock-trolls so this may lead to a real discussion.

Every where I look I see kids not much younger then me killing themselves to get degrees in college and this is a good thing... to a point. But I was talking with a guy I know and not to long ago he had finished his MBA in finance with a better the 3.5 GPA, this is a pretty good accomplishment but the problem is that he's 22 years old and has never worked more then an internship (as part of an assignment over break) at a small place that was too broke to hire him for real. In a field like finance it's pretty obvious that he was told what someone with an MBA makes, and the person wasn't actually telling him a lie, but what they didn't mention is that once you have that MBA there is no going back. You probably have a pile of debt, your hopes are up that you'll be able to skip the entry level grunt work, you might even feel entitled to a high position because of all of the work you did in school but the kicker is that no one will hire you.

I didn't have the heart to tell him why (that's part of the reason I'm writing this now), but with a Masters degree in anything, people know about what you are expecting to make and how you are expecting to be treated. But with no experiance you're untested and therefore a bigger risk for the company then the guy with the Associates degree in the same field. The other guy might work just as hard, is expecting to do some grunt work and is working a lot cheaper which makes him a lower risk with what would probably be the same result for the company. Also people who start on the bottom of a company and work their way up tend to get paid less at that company, companies know this and they like it.

The truth is that unless you want to work in medicine, there is nothing wrong with a 4 year degree. It's a great return for your investment and it doesn't look too presumptious to who ever you want to hire you. With the payments you need to make to pay back a Masters degree you wouldn't even see the extra money for about 10 years anyway.

What about you Dakka? Esspecially the younger people what kind of crap is being shoveled down your throats at school about the real world? For the older members what do you remember being told? What did you believe? And which reality hit you when you started looking for a job?

Ah bless you son.

My greatest mistake in life was jacking in education, and getting my first job.

I would give anything to correct that mistake, seriously I would. I'm 30 now, and still have a chance. Just need to get myself into a position to do so. Which is a lot harder once you take on your first financial commitments no? Just because you are unlikely to a get job in your preferred field, does not mean you cannot get a job. The market is down right now, so give it a couple of years.

Trust me, like condoms, it's better to have a Degree and not need it, than need it and not have it.

It's never too late, Mr. M!

I'm just going into my 3rd year of a 4-year degree - best decision I ever made, bar none. It's not as expensive to do here, so it seems less of a risk than it would be in the USA.

I'm planning on doing a Phd once I've finished my degree - there's no way I'd be able to afford to do that in the states.

Trouble is, deciding what I want to do my degree in. And do I do a part time course, a full time course, or Open Uni?

I recommend a full-time course - it's more immersive and motivates you more, in my opinion.

I suggest you study politics!

Nah. I think my head would explode.

Quite fancy Teacher Training. Perhaps I need to speak to what passes for a 'Careers guidance counseller' these days.

I want to go into Architecture. Sadly, with the economy in the crapper, I feel that that dream will never be accomplished. My other career choices, however, are Psychologist, ER Physician, and Fireman. All these jobs somehow incorporate being on the front lines of someone's well being. That's just they type of guy I am.

Architecture: Nope
The big 3: Possibly.

In my experience no degree will cut it anymore. If you don't have extensive work or internship experience you aren't going to get hired in your industry. And in many cases you need both the work experience, and the MA.

For example, in the last three years I have yet to see an entry level position that required less than 3 years experience for consideration.

My buddy, who graduated with a 3.6 in finance and 3 years of intern experience couldn't get hired anywhere until he completed his MA.

Don't get me wrong a Masters or a PhD aren't worthless. But to get them in place of experiance is a bad move. The best results I've seen are from people getting their 4 year degree, getting a job then attending school part time. But to jump right to a degree and think that it'll be enough to land that high paying job is BS and in a way it kind of disqualifies you for those entry level positions which give you the experiance that you need. Even if someone hires you for that lower end job you still have all of that debt to pay and you won't even see the return for another decade.

A great example on how to do it right is my Girlfriends Mother. She got her business degree and started working at a bank pretty early then she took night courses on the side as my girlfriend was growing up. Now she has her PhD and is a Private Consultant, even with the economy the way it is I get physically sick hearing about what she charges her clients and knowing that she has to turn some of them down because she has too much work.

At the same time though my Uncle has 3 PhD's. He got his first one before his first job and says that's the way to do it. He's the only one it's worked out for that I know of. On a related note once you have one PhD I guess you've taken so many differant classes that you're probably only a class or two away from you next one which is how he did it.

Well. heres an example.
http://www.parentdish.com/2010/06/30/teen-girls-drink-to-forget-their-troubles-study-says?icid=sphere_aol_parentdish2
after prolling through a few websites. I came across this.
And yes this is a real article.
Average American Girl = Dumb, unsophisticated, an Open Book.
No offense. But that's what I Have encountered in my state and most of the midwest.
No Offense to any girl from the Midwest. I've only encountered stupid people.

Also at least 1/2 of my class says that they do not want to go to college. Fail. But anyway only the most smart will surivive

ComputerGeek01 wrote:Don't get me wrong a Masters or a PhD aren't worthless. But to get them in place of experiance is a bad move.

In general its simply a matter of what you want to do. In most cases MBAs are great ways to take your career to the next level, but they aren't prerequisites for entering the job market. However, certain jobs simply require an MA in the field before most organizations will even consider you for an entry level position. If you want to be a financial analyst, for example.

ComputerGeek01 wrote:
But to jump right to a degree and think that it'll be enough to land that high paying job is BS and in a way it kind of disqualifies you for those entry level positions which give you the experiance that you need. Even if someone hires you for that lower end job you still have all of that debt to pay and you won't even see the return for another decade.

That's essentially how all lower end positions are. It isn't as though you need a college degree to be a bank teller, but it will be hell trying to find a job as one without your bachelors. The job market, as a general rule, tends to massively distort what is necessary regarding work qualifications. I don't think I've seen an 'entry-level' position in 4 years that hasn't required 3-5 years of experience, which usually means internships, which are usually limited to students, and often graduate students.

As for debt, that largely depends on how much debt you're getting yourself into. The average MA student graduates with about 35k in total debt, which isn't actually all that bad when spread over the standard 10 year repayment period. Remember that graduate school is also far, far cheaper than undergraduate; literally free if you can land a fellowship or assistantship.

ComputerGeek01 wrote:
On a related note once you have one PhD I guess you've taken so many differant classes that you're probably only a class or two away from you next one which is how he did it.

That depends on what you're getting multiple PhD's in. If they're all related fields like, say, political science, sociology, and philosophy then there's a good chance that once your methods courses are out of the way all you really need to do is write your dissertation. That still isn't a small undertaking, most people will eat up at least 3 years getting it done, but its better than the average 5 going from BA/BS to PhD.

If you're going from political science to something like physics, or biology, then its probably going to take a lot longer as you're essentially starting from 0.

I'd like to be able to go to Savannah College of Art and Design, but even if I get in, the reality is that I would have no way of paying the crazy tuition. Really sucks. I'm also considering studying marine biology, at a state school. Tuition is much cheaper.

I also would like to learn glassblowing, but I don't know how feasible that would be as a career.

I have a friend who's got a dual citizenship- Denmark and US- so he is going to college in Denmark and GETTING PAID FOR IT. Yeah, the government pays him to go to college.

Socialism doesn't sound so bad now does it?

rubiksnoob wrote:

Socialism doesn't sound so bad now does it?

I am socialist look again Australians were right!

rubiksnoob wrote:Yeah, the government pays him to go to college.

Socialism doesn't sound so bad now does it?

Is the government paying him in labor-coupons?

Orkeosaurus wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:Yeah, the government pays him to go to college.

Socialism doesn't sound so bad now does it?

Is the government paying him in labor-coupons?

No he said it was about a thousand bucks a month, which isn't much, but it's better than paying like 15,000 dollars a year.

rubiksnoob wrote:I'd like to be able to go to Savannah College of Art and Design, but even if I get in, the reality is that I would have no way of paying the crazy tuition. Really sucks. I'm also considering studying marine biology, at a state school. Tuition is much cheaper.

I also would like to learn glassblowing, but I don't know how feasible that would be as a career.

I have a friend who's got a dual citizenship- Denmark and US- so he is going to college in Denmark and GETTING PAID FOR IT. Yeah, the government pays him to go to college.

Socialism doesn't sound so bad now does it?

You can get scholarships for a full ride plus a stipend here in the states.

I think a great move is to get your 4 year degree. While you're getting your degree do internships or get hired at a job that's related to your degree for experience. When you graduate see if that job won't take you on full time or find another job that's related to your career to get experience. While working at said job, work on your masters at night. A couple years later you have experience and a masters and you're ready rock.

What am I told at school?

"The Emperor Protects"
"Warhammer Rocks!"
"NEEDS MOAR DAKKA!!!!!"
"I control your mind" <- said by my friend who's character is a psyker
and variations of said, sayings.

Man, they paid Reggie Bush to go to college, and everyone got all mad about it.

I think it's very much hit and miss. I studied physics at uni and a friend of mine studied astrophysics, which both happen to be very empty fields. I couldn't find a physics related job to save my life, whereas my friend is now working at the MoD in the theoretical weaponry department.

Now I didn't do as well as him, but in a class of 7 students you think there would have been something out there. Not to worry though, am perfectly happy in my current occupation teaching English to Chinese kids. Turns out I'm better at this than I ever was at physics.

Asherian Command wrote:Well. heres an example.
http://www.parentdish.com/2010/06/30/teen-girls-drink-to-forget-their-troubles-study-says?icid=sphere_aol_parentdish2
after prolling through a few websites. I came across this.
And yes this is a real article.
Average American Girl = Dumb, unsophisticated, an Open Book.
No offense. But that's what I Have encountered in my state and most of the midwest.
No Offense to any girl from the Midwest. I've only encountered stupid people.

Also at least 1/2 of my class says that they do not want to go to college. Fail. But anyway only the most smart will surivive

I love the poor grammar after a sweeping generalization of the entire population of the midwest.

I think that's the first case of self-fulfilling hypocrisy.

Strangely, here in the DC area a degree is critical. Starting secretarial positions can have requirements of a Bachelor or Masters degree. We've got a perverse level of degree bloat around here.

Of course the depression doesn't help.