Smoke Launchers + Ramming = Cover Save?

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**MellowYellow**

Let's say a rhino moves and them pops smoke. I ram that rhino with my super amazing marvel of an Eldar skimmer tank. (just for example, 24", tank, 12 armor = S9 hit.

Does the rhino in smoke get a cover save?

**Ordo Dakka**

No... enemy shooting phase.

**Gwar!**

No. Not only is the Ram not a shooting attack, the Smoke rules clearly state they only work in the next enemy SHOOTING PHASE.

**BlueDagger**

On a side note, math fail. 24/3 = 8 + 1 (for tank) + 2 (for 12 armor) = 11, though 10 is the highest it can go

**mattyrm**

Raw no, but common sense says yes as far as I'm concerned. Is certainly allow it to an opponent.

**Oscarius**

How is it "common sense" that you get a cover against a ram?

**SaintHazard**

It's not. Vehicles cannot possible be obscured from a ram and they certainly can't benefit from area terrain. And that's all before you take into account the fact that it's not a shooting attack.

So it's actually common sense that they don't get a cover save.

**croggy**

its common sence in real life

as in
"i'm going to drive into that half mile long smoke cloud and hopefully i'll hit something while i'm inside of it"

but game wise nope no save . the rules are very clear on this one

**Oscarius**

Half mile? I want that source.

Anyway, if the save would work it would actually make less sense.
"Oh I rammed your flacon into your rhino, s10 on you"
*Penetrates rhino*
"I get a cover"
*cover save passed*
"s9 hit back"
*Penetrates and go boom*

Makes sense to me.

**ArbitorIan**

Sorta offtopic, but you need to be damn careful measuring to get that S8+1...

You round down, so if you move 23.999" you only get a S7+1, and if you move 24.00001" it's an illegal move.

It's VERY hard to get a 24" and S8 ram......

**Oscarius**

Let's see, +2 for 12AV, +1 for tank. I need to move 15" for the s8, 21" for the s10.

**croggy**

Oscarius wrote:Half mile? I want that source.

**SaintHazard**

So that's in the 40k universe now, is it?

**Melchiour**

I am no photo expert, but I would say that smoke covers a width of about 40-60 yards, not half a mile. It is an impressive smoke screen, just not at all near a half mile.

**croggy**

SaintHazard wrote:So that's in the 40k universe now, is it?

nope . did i say it was? nope. did i say vehicles would get a save from smoke? nope

p.s. i know its not half mile i was just making example

**SaintHazard**

croggy wrote:
SaintHazard wrote:So that's in the 40k universe now, is it?
nope . did i say it was? nope. did i say vehicles would get a save from smoke? nope

p.s. i know its not half mile i was just making example

So what was the point of your post, then?

Real life smokescreens have exactly zero bearing on the 40k world, fluff or rules. A vehicle pops smoke, it only affects that vehicle. It doesn't magically cover half the board. You're not "driving into a half mile of smoke and hoping to hit something" in any situation, ever.

**mattyrm**

Aye its common sense mate cos i saw a Challenger 2 pop smoke in Iraq and it was the biggest bastard cloud of smoke i ever saw. Like.. 10 smoke grenades worth.

If i was driving into the cloud as fast as i could, id definately say its only a 50/50 chance im gonna hit the bastard!

As i said, i like to try an make the game more like RL.. but yeah, RAW you dont get one. I would talk it over with an opponent though, cos it makes sense that if you are flying a grav tank at great speed through a massive smoke cloud you might miss the bastard altogether.

**Oscarius**

Yes, but I would like to know what happens if the cover save is passed. Do the tank continue on, do it take the hit back or do it stand around like if a skimmar had dodged it?

**croggy**

just move on through

similar to a skimmers dodge

**Oscarius**

You don't move through if a skimmer dodge.

**Gwar!**

croggy wrote:just move on through

similar to a skimmers dodge

And this is why we follow the rules rather than let people make them up.

Read the rules first please.

**croggy**

well o.k. then just move on through(with no reference to skimmers)

look i've already said that rule wise its a no no but i was just suggesting alternatives as after all the rules are just guidlines when playing a friendly game

**SaintHazard**

croggy wrote: well o.k. then just move on through(with no reference to skimmers)

look i've already said that rule wise its a no no but i was just suggesting alternatives as after all the rules are just guidlines when playing a friendly game

Unacceptable!

House rules to make the game more fun? Absolute hogwash!

Sergeant-at-Arms, hog-tie this man and toss him overboard.

**croggy**

SaintHazard wrote:
croggy wrote: well o.k. then just move on through(with no reference to skimmers)

look i've already said that rule wise its a no no but i was just suggesting alternatives as after all the rules are just guidlines when playing a friendly game

Unacceptable!

House rules to make the game more fun? Absolute hogwash!

Sergeant-at-Arms, hog-tie this man and toss him overboard.

you've not got many friends have you

**SaintHazard**

croggy wrote:you've not got many friends have you

I have plenty of friends with senses of humor.

Tempermental manchildren acting tough on the internet, though? Nah, not too many.

**Rephistorch**

SaintHazard wrote:
croggy wrote:you've not got many friends have you

I have plenty of friends with senses of humor.

Tempermental manchildren acting tough on the internet, though? Nah, not too many.

I could be your tempermental manchild of a friend!

On topic: not shooting, no cover.

**mattyrm**

I'm with croggy though, I'd like to make a rule up for this situation for friendly games. I mean, it makes perfect sense you wouldn't be able to see the vehicle your trying to ram..maybe six inches from the rhino you could throw a scatter dice or something and drive in the direction the arrow points!

Although... makes no sense of you go backwards.....

Well.. its raw I suppose, but it makes no sense, they need to invent a driving through smoke dice!