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Which would you like to see back in the 40k world ? Where would the zoats fit into the hive world if they were " allowed " back in ? I know there is fluff outlining the ban that was put on artificial intelligence.But i always liked the minis back in the rogue trader days and they could be handled like the Eldar Wraithguard/lord with an enginseer to guide them/control them ?

Artificial intelligence just wont happen in the Imperium. Its a massive taboo. But yes heavy servitors made for combat are always possible and exist. Zoats I see no real reason for them to come back. They don't fulfil a purpose when the current vision of the hive fleet is a remorseless hungering beast set to consume the galaxy.

No, because 40k Zoats were a Tyranid slave-race. Not only do they no longer have slaves, but it doesn't fit the idea that the swarm is eating the galaxy. Zoats were used to communicate telepathically. Tyranids don't speak any more.

Heavy servitors would be nice for a variety of purposes.

Zoats would need to be returned to pre-enslavement status. Do they really add anything to the background?

I have no interest in either of these returning. I'd much rather see Genestealer Cults reintroduced.

Gamble wrote:I have no interest in either of these returning. I'd much rather see Genestealer Cults reintroduced.

Up to date genestealer cult models would be amazing.

Gamble wrote:I have no interest in either of these returning. I'd much rather see Genestealer Cults reintroduced.

Damn right that would rule, you could have models at different stages of thier evolution and realy cool looking brood lord model. Tyranid vehicals?!

Zoats don't fit Tyranids anymore, at all, and their look doesn't fit modern Tyranids. You'd have to make up a new role for them and a new look, and once you do that it's silly to say that you're bringing back zoats since you're changing everything about them. This is unlike genestealer cults - they still fit in with current fluff with the 'recent' change that once they take over a world it becomes a beacon for hive fleets. They had cool models and a distinct playstyle with lots of room for customization.

The original robots don't hit any Imperial prohibitions on AI. They would only follow a limited set of instructions, they weren't capable of independant thought. The Adeptus Mechanicus has many times been shown to make simple automatons, so they could fit with the fluff. Their mechanics don't fit into the modern game at all - making a program flowchart for what the robot is supposed to do, then walking through it during the game is the sort of complicated, time-consuming, open-to-interpretation thing that was common in 1e and isn't suited for large games. Without the special rules, they are just going to be Kanz/Drednoughts/Wraithlords with a different name, so there's no point in it.

Zoats could easily have their fluff retconned, much like the Genestealers. The 'stealers were thought to be native to moons of Ymgarl and later found to be the vanguard of the Tyranids. Maybe the Zoats have bio-tech similr to the Tyranids but without the hivemind, and were mistkenly thought to be Tyranid slaves? Having cavalry-sized models as basic soldiers would be cool!

Robots were never artificial intelligences, the player had to write flowchart programs for them to follow during the game and each box cost points. Now, of course, we have Rage for the melee 'bots and I'm sure there could be a shooting rule like "must shoot nearest target" or some such. If and/or when we see an Adeptus Mechanicus codex, I am sure we will see a return of the robots.

I thought the robots were controlled by a special Tech Priest (fluff wise) so they can actually fit in with the current rules. Maybe give them Mind Lock or if the Tech Priest dies the whole unit goes with him as they become useless.

I loved the genestealer cults too, but they dont match the current tyranid image of a devouring beast with an endless appetite. genestealer cults implied an intelligence understandable by, and able to understand, a human one. The current Tyranid concept is that it is so ALIEN to anything we could possibly understand. They just don't fit into our culture any more than we fit into theirs, any more than I can understand what a spider is thinking, nor it understand me. If genestealer cults exist, it implies a human-like mind could be evolving into the genestealers.

Remember genestealers existed as their own army long before tyranids were even concieved of. They survived by infiltrating and corrupting the genes of a planet from behind the scenes, with 'purestrains' being the lowest and furthest away from the race they were infecting, while hybrids and magos interacted with the population. They were later assimilated into the Tyranid book, which didn't exist when the cult fluff was written.

So although cool, it just doesn't fit with the current image of the 'nids.

Zoats would be brilliant bought back as mercenaries for hire, and fighting for the Tau like the Kroot and the Vespid.

Zoats were kind of lame, really. Not BAD lame, but still lame. And don't we have a robot army already, in the form of the Necrons? If the OP is referring to an Imperial style bot army, then it'd be difficult, as the fluff for the mechanicum say they detest artificial sentience. The only reason machine-spirits get away with it is because they have only a limited sentience, as well as possibly being a by-product of centuries of techpriest's repairs.

gazelle wrote:Having cavalry-sized models as basic soldiers would be cool!

Tyranids Warriors do exist, you know.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Zoats were kind of lame, really. Not BAD lame, but still lame. And don't we have a robot army already, in the form of the Necrons? If the OP is referring to an Imperial style bot army, then it'd be difficult, as the fluff for the mechanicum say they detest artificial sentience. The only reason machine-spirits get away with it is because they have only a limited sentience, as well as possibly being a by-product of centuries of techpriest's repairs.

I also think that any Imperial machine that thinks has some organic bits in it (ie a brain) so that way it is not entirely an "artificial intelligence".

Robots WEREN'T AI.
They were essentially servitors with the ability to carry a heavy weapon AND up to two two-handed weapons OR CCWs. And could fire and move.

They had a program, a restrictive program at times, that allowed them to operate - but required a tech-priest or AM model in order to take them.

You had to choose a program for them, and damage results could stuff your plans up.

As for Zoats. They had a major flaw. They were made intelligent to be 'negotiators' to the other races but they were made too smart. They rebelled against their former slave masters (many becoming mercenaries) and were eaten/wiped out/re-absorbed. Nobody likes a too-clever-by-half slave.

Another vote for genestealer Cult and against Zoats and robots.

I have to say,zoats as part of the tau empire would look great.I remember seeing the genestealer cult stuff in a WD and agree it could/should make a comeback.Apologies for getting a bit mixed up where the robots are concerned,i could not remember from the fluff why they were "banned".I really liked the minis and would just like to see them in a guard army again ( with an obvious tweak to the rules for them ).

Guitardian wrote:I loved the genestealer cults too, but they dont match the current tyranid image of a devouring beast with an endless appetite. genestealer cults implied an intelligence understandable by, and able to understand, a human one. The current Tyranid concept is that it is so ALIEN to anything we could possibly understand. They just don't fit into our culture any more than we fit into theirs, any more than I can understand what a spider is thinking, nor it understand me. If genestealer cults exist, it implies a human-like mind could be evolving into the genestealers.

Remember genestealers existed as their own army long before tyranids were even concieved of. They survived by infiltrating and corrupting the genes of a planet from behind the scenes, with 'purestrains' being the lowest and furthest away from the race they were infecting, while hybrids and magos interacted with the population. They were later assimilated into the Tyranid book, which didn't exist when the cult fluff was written.

So although cool, it just doesn't fit with the current image of the 'nids.

Except of course that genestealer cults seem to appear in all sorts of current novels and other fluff, Ciaphas cain springs to mind , and I'll try and find some other references when my boss isn't looking and I'd like to see all 3 come back variety is the spice of life as they say

n0t_u wrote:I thought the robots were controlled by a special Tech Priest (fluff wise) so they can actually fit in with the current rules. Maybe give them Mind Lock or if the Tech Priest dies the whole unit goes with him as they become useless.

Mind lock wouldn't be anything like the old rules for them, and doesn't make them any different than 'big servitors'. I don't think there's any chance of bringing back the old flowchart rules for how they work on the battlefield, as amusing as a damage result removing the 'is target a friend' check was, and that was the only unique thing about robots.

Guitardian wrote:I loved the genestealer cults too, but they dont match the current tyranid image of a devouring beast with an endless appetite. genestealer cults implied an intelligence understandable by, and able to understand, a human one. The current Tyranid concept is that it is so ALIEN to anything we could possibly understand. They just don't fit into our culture any more than we fit into theirs, any more than I can understand what a spider is thinking, nor it understand me. If genestealer cults exist, it implies a human-like mind could be evolving into the genestealers.

Genestealer cults were retconned to fit with current fluff back in 2nd edition (around 15 years ago), they don't need any more retconning. Genestealers are sent as a seperate force that operates seperately from the hivemind to help prepare the way for the hivemind, then gets reabsorbed once the hive mind finds them and zooms in. Since they're independant, sometimes they resist the absorbtion so end up fighting tyranids, and since they're not part of the full hive mind their psykers act more like everyone else's psykers. The genestealers get a human-like mind by crossing themselves with humans, when they're operating as a cult they're simply not part of the highly-alien hivemind. Unlike zoats or robots, genestealer cults also come up in current fluff books.

The Tyranid concept is understandable to me, and understanding what a spider thinks is easy, if you're willing to call what the limited brain of a spider does 'thinking'. Lots of tactical scenarios (like stalking and laying ambushes) wouldn't be possible if Tyranids didn't have anything mentally in common with 40k humans, predicting where an opponent will go or how to induce panic just isn't possible without some understanding of psychology.

chromedog wrote:Robots WEREN'T AI.

True they were realy stupid at times, espcialy after suffring some damage, but that is why they were fun.

I have some of the Smaller AT-43 dreads that i was thinking of using as "Ogren" whith Programing.

I think Zoats re-introduced as a Tau ally unit would be interesting. Say a fast cav/beasts assault/counter assault type role.

Used kind of how Rough Riders are for IG.

THough, I think its interesting to note how reminiscent of zoats the Hive Guard are. The model is very centaur-ish.

i love genestealer cults and am writing my own fandex for them.


No it's not all 10,10,10,10 more like 9,9,9,9 lol