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I am not sure but is it possible to take a difficult terrain test and climb up on a vehicle? I've seen it a few times so I am curios to know. If this is true can you stay on top of the vehicle while it moves? Personally I think it would be cool but I don't want this post to be a proposed rule.

No you cannot. The only time you can stand on a vehicle is after it has been wrecked

If its a wreck you can. Otherwise it is impassible terrain.

There are places that the rules don't cover, like deployment, in cases like this its best not to try and bend the rules.

Oh well thanks! I am going to make it a house rule though

Well there was an apoc. rule letting people ride deffilers if they fell off well splat.

if you ride on your Tanks you will get called all sorts of names.

worst of which is "Goto-lover"

I thought of this quite some time back and when fished on the 'Net, got shouted down.

It does make a certain kind of sense, so I see nothing wrong with a House Ruling. As long as there's room on the tank, infantry-unit coherency is maintained, etc. Maybe a Special exception for Jump-Infantry, etc. on the D-Terrain tests ....

However, it is not allowed by the rules. The thing to cite for your buddies who allow this, is that you won't find any passage allowing you to do so. Games are structured on the Permissive Rules Set (you can do X, you may do Y, you cannot do Z) yadda, yadda.

Basically:
A - Models can't be placed on top of other models.
B - A tank is a model.
Therefore
C - No hitchhikers.

Once it gets turned into scenery though ...

The rulebook says that no models in a unit may be within one inch of a model in another unit. vehicles are units numbering one model (vehicle squadrons notwithstanding), therefore you cannot get on top of tanks. wrecked tanks on the other hand count as difficult terrain so you can get on top of wrecked tanks.

The 1 inch thing is in fantasy. In 40k, friendly units can be as close as they want; enemies must still maintain the 1 inch however.

While riding tanks is cool and may even make sense some of the time, the rules dont let models occupy the same space.

DevianID wrote:The 1 inch thing is in fantasy. In 40k, friendly units can be as close as they want; enemies must still maintain the 1 inch however.

This bit is right. The 1" rule only applies to enemy units.

While riding tanks is cool and may even make sense some of the time, the rules dont let models occupy the same space.

This isn't really relevant, though. Standing on top of something isn't occupying the same space as it.

What stops a model from moving across a friendly vehicle is the fact that models count as impassable terrain. Page 13, "Guidelines on Categorising Terrain"... 3rd bullet point.

Unless the Vehicle is a wreck, it is not Sunshine, and you cannot walk on it.

Insaniak, are you advocating that when the designers wrote the rule "no models may occupy the same space" they ment it as a warning, lest we violate the very laws of nature?

Or do you follow my reading, where 'space' is game board space, aka the flat surface we play the game on.

(By the way, skimmers can land on impassable terrain, thus if you think only the fact that vehicles count as impassable terrain prevents models from being on them, then we should start putting land speeders on our rhinos)

He's not the only one who feels, correctly, that the developers mean "space" when they write "space".

I'm sure no one's ever seen another player try to measure movement through his own units and had to point out the rule that says you can't move through your own guys before.

(By the way, skimmers can land on impassable terrain, thus if you think only the fact that vehicles count as impassable terrain prevents models from being on them, then we should start putting land speeders on our rhinos)

Not to mention jump infantry! Though what happens when the Rhino moves is not covered by the rules.

DevianID wrote:Insaniak, are you advocating that when the designers wrote the rule "no models may occupy the same space" they ment it as a warning, lest we violate the very laws of nature?

What they actually wrote was that models may not move into or through the space occupied by another model... as a way (IMO) simply of explaining that you can't move through other models, but have to go around.

(By the way, skimmers can land on impassable terrain, thus if you think only the fact that vehicles count as impassable terrain prevents models from being on them, then we should start putting land speeders on our rhinos)

Skimmers have an additional rule that prevents them from finishing their movement above other models.

solkan wrote:He's not the only one who feels, correctly, that the developers mean "space" when they write "space".

I'm sure no one's ever seen another player try to measure movement through his own units and had to point out the rule that says you can't move through your own guys before.

Cool, so in your version of the rules, we can deploy our Land Speeders and Assault Marines on top of our Rhinos, and it's legal, right?

And since they're impassible terrain, and your own units cannot be less than 1 inch away from mine unless in assault, you'll never be able to assault anything on top of one of my Rhinos.

I like playing by made-up rules!

And since they're impassible terrain, and your own units cannot be less than 1 inch away from mine unless in assault, you'll never be able to assault anything on top of one of my Rhinos.

True but in your version of the game models can't assault units up levels in ruins as you can't get within 1" of building inorder to get up to the top level... Nor can units deploy across several levels of the ruin unless they can all fit on one level.

40k is a 3 dimensional game and your space rule is simply not in the rulebook.

SaintHazard wrote:Cool, so in your version of the rules, we can deploy our Land Speeders and Assault Marines on top of our Rhinos, and it's legal, right?

I don't know about solkan's, but in 'my' version of the rules, units can't be deployed anywhere that they couldn't legally move, unless we both agree that something just looks too cool sitting somewhere improbable for it to not be allowed to go there...

Which, yes, is a made-up rule, brought in to counter the distinct lack of actual rules governing deployment, and based on the assumption that in light of any actual rules of its own, deployment should be treated as following more or less the same rules as movement.

I don't know about solkan's, but in 'my' version of the rules, units can't be deployed anywhere that they couldn't legally move, unless we both agree that something just looks too cool sitting somewhere improbable for it to not be allowed to go there...

Which, yes, is a made-up rule, brought in to counter the distinct lack of actual rules governing deployment, and based on the assumption that in light of any actual rules of its own, deployment should be treated as following more or less the same rules as movement.

It is no more a made up rule than people placing their units somewhere they can't move to. Any placing any models on the table during deployment is making up rules...

FlingitNow wrote:

And since they're impassible terrain, and your own units cannot be less than 1 inch away from mine unless in assault, you'll never be able to assault anything on top of one of my Rhinos.

True but in your version of the game models can't assault units up levels in ruins as you can't get within 1" of building inorder to get up to the top level... Nor can units deploy across several levels of the ruin unless they can all fit on one level.

40k is a 3 dimensional game and your space rule is simply not in the rulebook.

You may want to actually read the rules on ruins. They're not impassible terrain unless you and your opponent decide they are pre-game, and coherency (and any other distance between models on different levels) is measured from head to base, not base to base. This is all in the actual rules, not the made-up ones you play.

SaintHazard wrote:You may want to actually read the rules on ruins. They're not impassible terrain unless you and your opponent decide they are pre-game, and coherency (and any other distance between models on different levels) is measured from head to base, not base to base. This is all in the actual rules, not the made-up ones you play.

The Ruins rules actually specify to measure base to base as normal for all measurement except coherency, which is measured head to base for units split between levels.

The Assault rules for Ruins do allow you to just move assaulters as close as possible if they can't be placed in base contact.


Meanwhile, how about we steer away from the 'go read the rules' suggestions and the snide 'made-up rules' digs, as they're not going to lead anywhere worth going?

When they have been turned into scenery,fine,otherwise,no.

You may want to actually read the rules on ruins. They're not impassible terrain unless you and your opponent decide they are pre-game, and coherency (and any other distance between models on different levels) is measured from head to base, not base to base. This is all in the actual rules, not the made-up ones you play.

I never said ruins where impassible. But your 2D version of the game means that the area under (or above) any model becomes impassible. Thus units occupying a ruin could just place their men around the edges and you'd never be able to assault them because you could get up the level without occupying the same 2D space as the models up a level in the terrain...

Your quote... I do not think it says what you meant it to say...

Cheers for that, annoying cordless keyboard, with cut-paste fail...