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Need a sounding board. I currently have my CCS loaded up with plasma (4 rifles on vets, commander pistol w/ power sword) and my PCS is all flamers and krak nades (except the commander w/ plasma psitol and power sword, and 1 hvy flamer.) While the CCS performs well, its expensive and prone to self destructing from the guns overheating. The PCS who was supposed to blunt swarm rush doesn't seem to be able to survive long enough to get a shot off and have been lack luster in CQB on account of IG is very squishy and low numbers in the squad. Would I be better off just stripping down my command squads to their standard load out, use them just for orders, and use the points gain for 2 more chimeras and infantry squads?

swiftdraw wrote:Need a sounding board. I currently have my CCS loaded up with plasma (4 rifles on vets, commander pistol w/ power sword) and my PCS is all flamers and krak nades (except the commander w/ plasma psitol and power sword, and 1 hvy flamer.)

Firstly, you shoudl really probably take the plasma pistol off the officer, as it's pretty expensive for what most of the time is a single-shot plasma gun. That and dump the sword. How many times has that power weapon actually won a combat for you?

Also, heavy flamers in infantry are insanely overpriced.

swiftdraw wrote: While the CCS performs well, its expensive and prone to self destructing from the guns overheating.

... but it still preforms well before it destructs itself, right? I mean, once you put down something with all those plasma guns, it's not like it really needs to kill anything else in order to be worth taking. Plus, if it's that much of a threat, it's not terribly likely to survive anyways, regardless of how much you help the process along with plasma burns.

swiftdraw wrote:The PCS who was supposed to blunt swarm rush doesn't seem to be able to survive long enough to get a shot off and have been lack luster in CQB on account of IG is very squishy and low numbers in the squad.

Yeah, I wouldn't imagine this squad does much. Flamer weapons and assault don't mix all that well, as you tend to kill your way out of assault range. Plus, they are only situational weapons to begin with. I have a 2x flamer PCS I carry around with me because points are tight, but I don't think it's really done much of anything since I started bringing it.

If you want it to do anything, either take the JO with a fist and add a fist commissar, or give it some better special weapons, like meltaguns.

swiftdraw wrote:Would I be better off just stripping down my command squads to their standard load out, use them just for orders, and use the points gain for 2 more chimeras and infantry squads?

I wouldn't strip your CCS. That unit is a valuable source of BS4, and it's always in range of BiD and FomT, which means it should always carry scary weapons. Indeed, I'd say that how you have it set up now is pretty optimal (apart form the wasted points on the officer). This firepower is nearly irreplaceable, so I wouldn't cut it out just for a couple of bawkses.

Are they mounted up or running around on foot. Command squads are glass cannons, they break if you don't protect them well.

Also, for your CCS, drop the power sword and plasma pistol and pick up carapace armor. Against vehicles/MCs BiD and carapace give you a 1/6*1/6*1/2 (1/72) chance of dieing per shot. Which means if you double tap each round you're going to lose one man every 9 turns.

BishopX wrote:Are they mounted up or running around on foot. Command squads are glass cannons, they break if you don't protect them well.

Also, for your CCS, drop the power sword and plasma pistol and pick up carapace armor. Against vehicles/MCs BiD and carapace give you a 1/6*1/6*1/2 (1/72) chance of dieing per shot. Which means if you double tap each round you're going to lose one man every 9 turns.

This^. or, i give my CCS the Meltas and my Vets the plasma. but no matter what they are armed with, they all have rides! giving them an armored shirt like a Chimera will help them last a while.
i'm on the fence about the plasma pistols, but the Power swors got to go. the whole squad is based on shoot at a distance(12" anyway), so why waste the 20 points. and i don't use Carapace.
this is all imho.

Just a heads up, that math is off. 8 plasma shots yields .87 dead guardsmen per shot without carapace, and .65 with carapace.

Burns happen. Get over it.

Ailaros wrote:Just a heads up, that math is off. 8 plasma shots yields .87 dead guardsmen per shot without carapace, and .65 with carapace.

Burns happen. Get over it.

I don't want to think too much about the math at the moment, but he stipulated that those odds were with the "bring it down" order.

Dropping the sword & shelling out for a medpack will drop your firepower, but drastically increase your survivability.

Even with bring it down, it's 1/3 (the odds of missing first shot) * 1/6 (odds of one on the second) * 1/2 (carapace) or 1/36 times.

To the OP: I love me some four flamer PCS, but in the current book you need to give it a ride. In the old days, they were linebackers, flaming stuff that broke a squad in front. Now, with commissars and blobs, you should generally be holding the line. Go for mobility.

As for the CCS, I like the plasma pistol, but it's an expensive luxury and should be among the first points you drop when things get tight.

You don't "get hot" on every miss though, just 1/6.

willydstyle wrote:You don't "get hot" on every miss though, just 1/6.

Correct.

It's a 1/72 chance with carapace and bring it down. That's completely safe.

Except you still re-roll the "twos" with bring it down.

Polonius wrote:Except you still re-roll the "twos" with bring it down.

Good point. I was not thinking that re-rolling the original two would increase the chance to get hot over simply re-rolling the 1s.

Yeah, probably going to strip the Company and Platoon commander of the power sword and plasma pistol and put the extra points towards getting a Astropath. Heavy flamer is also out, and the points from that will probably go to the CSS getting carapace (they completely self destructed again) if I can figure out how to model it on. I don't know if I want to be rid of the PCS flamer unit just yet as it was invaluable today for keeping my back field clear of deep striking units. They were one unit short of completely wiping out a daemonette squad on their own and their chimera took care of her/it. They were also enough of a threat to keep the enemy from hunkering up in near-by buildings and deep stirking in directly behind my armor. Not sure what else I'd replace the flamers with in the PCS as the CSS has the plasma down and my melta vets w/ their vendetta have been doing a glorious job wiping the field of armor (for the whole 1 turn the tend to be alive.)

Thanks all for the replies.

I'd keep the PCS flamer squad as you have it also!