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I was talking with a friend and I came across a problem. He was saying that a single ork isn't intelligent and that all apparent intelligence is from the massed intelligence of the species. I stated about design and culture as being two deliminations of intelligence - both of which orks possess.

So the problem simplifies down to: What is a definition of inteligence?
Can a single ork possess it? Or is it a mass thing?

Orks are intelligent, and have specialties (a Doc isn't going to have mechanical smarts, and a Mek isn't going to have medical smarts, etc), but they're like the average forum-goer, they don't really think rationally and in abstract terms.

Orks are smart.

They're so smart, things like ethics and semantics are beneath them! Even proppa grammah is nuffin' but a ruff guideline.

I don't think they are stupid....just very very single minded. The only thing they are interested in is war and just is the only thing they do well.

I always liked this phrase to describe ork intellect.

'What orks lack in higher intelligence they more than make up for in low cunning...'

And as for the mek and dok and so on, I think that's often described as instinctive in certain orks, hence all orks know their place in life, it's genetically coded.

Life in da trenches is da best life for an ork. It not matta what we attack, so long as we get to smash and take stuff. If we not smashing our way to more land, den we smashing among da clans to see who can sit where on da land we already got. Life in da ork clans is always something intresting dat is happening. If we not under orders to loot stuffz we are waiting for da big mek to build more stuffz to loot stuffz later. While we wait we fight ourselves to see who da biggest ork is. Most orks know dat the bigger da ork da more important dat ork is. Humans show dis by stripes on a shoulder patch, dat is just silly. Dat is like me putting more warpaint on a grot and listening to the small little fella. Dat just make no sense. Grots do as dey are told cuz dey are small and will get klobbed if dey don’t. Humans are a puny race dat needs to be squashed out of da galaxy. Humans worse den grots. A human will never understand dat he is not as big as da orks and should do what da orks say. Humans try and hide from da might of the orks in steely tanks cuz dey small human bodies too weak. Der is only one truth to da galaxy, green is best.

Ork logic is different then human logic so it is hard to grasp how intelligent an ork really is.

Ork intelligence is in their genetic code. Some orks have it, and some dont. Thats how meks and doks gain their abilities. That already "have" the smarts. They just need to find it.

Orks have a different kind of intelligence. One of the 'fluff' statements warned imperial commanders that orks have a 'low cunning' that can catch you off guard. They can spot weaknesses and devise plans, most of them can bolt together a thing that works (somehow) for at least a little bit.

Now if you asked an ork to do higher math he'd scratch his head, maybe a mek or a doc might be able to, or maybe not, maybe they don't actually 'know' math, they just know their job. However, some Kommandos learn to read and write. Of all the orks, the kommandos are probably the 'smartest' (which oddly enough makes other orks wary of them)

Orks are incredibly smart. At age two, humans can walk. At age two, Orks can construct armored fighting vehicles, perform surgery, and operate non-fixed wing aircraft.

The thing about ork intelligence is that a) it has very limited applications, and b) is non-self-reflective. An ork probably could learn a vast array if skills beyond those necessary to combat, but it never would. In this sense, orks are unbelievably thick. Viewed purely in terms of skill acquisition, though, orks are brilliant.

MekanobSamael wrote:Orks are incredibly smart. At age two, humans can walk. At age two, Orks can construct armored fighting vehicles, perform surgery, and operate non-fixed wing aircraft.

THIS.

By the time orks reach age one they are trying to find their place amoung specialists within the tribe. (the codex says UP TO a year, so they could do so even faster) They are born with knowledge we wouldn't be able to comprehend until college. An Ork mek saw a warhound titan. He wanted one. He went home and built his own. That in itself is pure genious. What makes Orks seem idiotic is that they only have the capacity to invent things that A: Help kill things fasta. or B: Help get to things fasta so they can kill it.

Though not used by ALL Orks they also have a knack for stradegy as well. Kommandos are able to infiltrate an enemy camp, slit the throats of its occupants, then destroy its gun implacements, all to help the rest of the tribe reach the fight easier. Stormboyz plan out entire raids in great detail, taking pride in the orginization requied amoungst themselves to do so. You can count on one hand how old most of the Orks doing these things are

Everyone knows Orks is da smartest.

Seriously though of course they have intelligence - it could be argued they are more intelligent than a human because they do not ask the kinds of questions that Humanity has struggled with since ? well, at least since the inception of writing (as far as records go). Man's pursuit of knowledge (and the saddening dissolution of it) has created many woes and as many 'miracles' with science now replacing magic (unless you're into Harry Potter) & in 40k they appear to share a similar bond (within the Imperium at any rate). Orks simply exist based on their sole race memory - as people have said - single minded tenacity. An Ork can never truly die (unless it's burned at its spawning site - even then the chances are its left a part of it somewhere else that will grow). So essentially Orks are immortal which is the goal of human existence & knowledge - esoterically speaking anyway...

So. Yes. Orks are intelligent for these reasons and those given by others. But then they smell really bad...

the_ferrett wrote:I was talking with a friend and I came across a problem. He was saying that a single ork isn't intelligent and that all apparent intelligence is from the massed intelligence of the species. I stated about design and culture as being two deliminations of intelligence - both of which orks possess.

So the problem simplifies down to: What is a definition of inteligence?
Can a single ork possess it? Or is it a mass thing?

The average Ork is actually about as intelligent as the average human. The idea that orks aren't intelligent comes from the fact that, unlike humans, Orks will invariably seek the simplest solutions to problems, rarely worrying about things like morality and even the knock-on effects. It's also a valid point that personality is a good indicator of intelligence, and in that case, Orks are plenty intelligent, as it is the ork's likes and dislikes which define what Klan it belongs to.

Orks are also instinctively more educated than humans are at birth. They understand combat at an instinctual level, and meks/doks/etc understand the science behind their trade instinctively as well.

Meks in particular are absolutely brilliant. They just don't care about silly things like safety, or side effects. They like results, plain and simple.

Nurglitch wrote:Orks are intelligent, and have specialties (a Doc isn't going to have mechanical smarts, and a Mek isn't going to have medical smarts, etc), but they're like the average forum-goer, they don't really think rationally and in abstract terms.

They share other similarities to forumites as well:

1. Quick to anger

2. Lack of standard grammar recognition

3. mob rule

4. poor hygiene

5. no females of their species exist

In a sense, Orks are quite clever. After all, they are born with the instinctive knowledge of how to use a weapon and how to fight. They are also very experimental, particularly the Meks and Doks, who often risk a lot in order to try out something new (that often doesn't go down well with the warboss).

CT GAMER wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Orks are intelligent, and have specialties (a Doc isn't going to have mechanical smarts, and a Mek isn't going to have medical smarts, etc), but they're like the average forum-goer, they don't really think rationally and in abstract terms.

They share other similarities to forumites as well:

1. Quick to anger

2. Lack of standard grammar recognition

3. mob rule

4. poor hygiene

5. no females of their species exist

...and the bigger they are, the more important they are. That's important, that.

Orks are the smart kid in class who fools around all day and gets "does not apply himself" written on his report card. They're the people who have an IQ of 130 and spend 12 hours a day posting pictures of cats on 4chan. In other words, the difference between humans and orks isn't capability, but application. Orks are impatient, lazy, easily distracted, and very inclined to simply call something "gud enuff" and go with it. They're smart, but they don't want to do the kind of things that smart humans do, they want to run around and smash stuff like they're playing Just Cause.

CT GAMER wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Orks are intelligent, and have specialties (a Doc isn't going to have mechanical smarts, and a Mek isn't going to have medical smarts, etc), but they're like the average forum-goer, they don't really think rationally and in abstract terms.

They share other similarities to forumites as well:

1. Quick to anger

2. Lack of standard grammar recognition

3. mob rule

4. poor hygiene

5. no females of their species exist

I like that quote in the eldar codex about orks being the epitome of civilization or some such. It was some perverse eldar philosopher who said it and It's pretty spot on. Has anyone heard of a sad ork? even the weediest ork doesn't question what he is alive for or good for.
Ee' just knows that krumpin stuff iz worth the krumpin in itself it iz.

Yeah, chances are that a philosopher known by the moniker "the Perverse" is being really sarcastic.

Orks, are smart.

Also, if something doesn't work, they can just think it works. And guess what it will.

Nurglitch wrote:Yeah, chances are that a philosopher known by the moniker "the Perverse" is being really sarcastic.

Either that or his beliefs are called "perverse" because he's entirely serious.

Orks are the smartest race in existence. They're just better than everyone else.

Well,they do have a fair amount of intellect in a single ork,though not as smart as a single human,save the warbosses and a fair amount of nobz. They,I guess,have a Neanderthal amount of intellegence. Hope that helps.....





FIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

That depends. Orks are instinctively MUCH smarter on the battlefield than the vast majority of humans (Marines have to be trained for decades or even centuries to reach the prowess an Ork is born with).

Melissia wrote:That depends. Orks are instinctively MUCH smarter on the battlefield than the vast majority of humans (Marines have to be trained for decades or even centuries to reach the prowess an Ork is born with).

QFT

Well they are instictively smarter when it comes to the basics of fighting, but the average ork doesnt know anything about tactics he simply rushs to the closest battle, not that the run of the mill guardsmen is taught much either. But they are trained not to think to highly orks just dont, and space marnies are trained to hand a variety of situations, aswell as most of their "training" is in superstition and such. The orks are basicly blind savants, they are brilliant in one area, but utterly stupid in all others

Tactical Nuclear Panda wrote:Well they are instictively smarter when it comes to the basics of fighting, but the average ork doesnt know anything about tactics he simply rushs to the closest battle, not that the run of the mill guardsmen is taught much either. But they are trained not to think to highly orks just dont, and space marnies are trained to hand a variety of situations, aswell as most of their "training" is in superstition and such. The orks are basicly blind savants, they are brilliant in one area, but utterly stupid in all others

Remember, only one person in an army needs to know strategy for the whole thing to be effective.

As for Orks, if your army is built right running straight at the enemy waving something sharp will win you the battle nine times out of ten.

Actually Orks are great when it comes to tactics.

The difference is that Ork tactics do not seem to care about casualties.

One could argue most Orks are weak in strategy (save for warbosses), but tactics? Oh no, they understand the battlefield completely and utterly.

'Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!'

Orks have it right , if that's not a sign of intelligence I don't know what is