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My question is in regards to deepstriking with the Boss Zagstruck and his unit of Stormboyz. I know that I am supposed to build my unit of Killteam from the normal force organization rules for each unit. Kill team rules say that each model counts for its own unit and that models are not allowed to deepstrike unless the codex rules say that they must do so. Boss Zagstruck must deepstrike with his unit. My question is that since killteam rules say that each model is a unit, does that prevent or force the rest of the stormboyz to deepstrike because each model is a unit or because they are formed as a unit and then deployed?

Thanks for your help

The short answer is that Kill Teams is horribly written and the rules are unclear... and codices, having not been written with Kill Teams rules in mind, do not make exceptions for scenarios like Kill Teams.

AFAIK, there are no rules to govern this situation.

Make gak up.

Zag's special rule does not refer to 'units' so is not affected by the kill team rules. (just because they are separate units does not mean that they are no longer part of the same squad or mob - A unit is an in-play grouping, squads/mobs are organisational groupings. While the two are usually the same there are many cases where they are not.)

Rather, the mob that he is an upgrade to are affected by the special rule.

Therefore all the stormboyz purchased in that mob must deepstrike.

So then I am guessing that when they deepstrike and hit the board they then break into individual units? When Zagstruck's unit deepstrikes he may lose 1d3 models and assullt the same turn. I am guessing that since all of the other units are now seperate they cannot assult, but Zagstuck could theroically, killing himself in the process... i.e. losing 1d3 models with only himself in the group?

Zag doesn't have permission to deepstrike (his rule doesn't include any allowance to do so when it's disallowed by the scenario), but he must.

He's unplayable as written in killteam, the game just breaks.
And don't get me started on his other stuff... the 'lose 1d3 models' when every model is a unit is fun.

Redhat wrote:So then I am guessing that when they deepstrike and hit the board they then break into individual units? When Zagstruck's unit deepstrikes he may lose 1d3 models and assullt the same turn. I am guessing that since all of the other units are now seperate they cannot assult, but Zagstuck could theroically, killing himself in the process... i.e. losing 1d3 models with only himself in the group?

No, they're always separate units in killteam. Everyone in the squad is required to deepstrike. In kill team they are all separate units. They all deepstrike separately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorkamorka wrote:Zag doesn't have permission to deepstrike (his rule doesn't include any allowance to do so when it's disallowed by the scenario), but he must.

This is a more fundamental issue. The mob must deep strike. Kill Team forbids putting units into reserve. Which is more specific? Tough call.

Personally, I allow units require to be in reserve or deep strike to do so but do not have them counting towards the army's strength while in reserve.

One houserule that may solve some of the issues regarding individual models vs. units in Killteam is to count each model as an IC, allowing models to form units so long as they are in coherency. This doesn't really affect Zag's required deepstrike, but would allow him to resolve the d3 models problem.

I normally play eldar and take issue that some of our best units for killteam are pretty meh when deployed as individual units. Pretty much all the exarch upgrades are useless when they only affect the exarch.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Redhat wrote:So then I am guessing that when they deepstrike and hit the board they then break into individual units? When Zagstruck's unit deepstrikes he may lose 1d3 models and assullt the same turn. I am guessing that since all of the other units are now seperate they cannot assult, but Zagstuck could theroically, killing himself in the process... i.e. losing 1d3 models with only himself in the group?

No, they're always separate units in killteam. Everyone in the squad is required to deepstrike. In kill team they are all separate units. They all deepstrike separately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorkamorka wrote:Zag doesn't have permission to deepstrike (his rule doesn't include any allowance to do so when it's disallowed by the scenario), but he must.

This is a more fundamental issue. The mob must deep strike. Kill Team forbids putting units into reserve. Which is more specific? Tough call.

Personally, I allow units require to be in reserve or deep strike to do so but do not have them counting towards the army's strength while in reserve.

I would venture to say that the rule for the game type is more specific as there are rules for certain units that allow them to be placed in reserve "even if the mission doesn't allow it", so if they don't have that qualifier then they can't be in reserves even if they're required to do so. That's just my .02 though.

He has a 'special name' so our group just doesn't play him.

Kevin949 wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Redhat wrote:So then I am guessing that when they deepstrike and hit the board they then break into individual units? When Zagstruck's unit deepstrikes he may lose 1d3 models and assullt the same turn. I am guessing that since all of the other units are now seperate they cannot assult, but Zagstuck could theroically, killing himself in the process... i.e. losing 1d3 models with only himself in the group?

No, they're always separate units in killteam. Everyone in the squad is required to deepstrike. In kill team they are all separate units. They all deepstrike separately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorkamorka wrote:Zag doesn't have permission to deepstrike (his rule doesn't include any allowance to do so when it's disallowed by the scenario), but he must.

This is a more fundamental issue. The mob must deep strike. Kill Team forbids putting units into reserve. Which is more specific? Tough call.

Personally, I allow units require to be in reserve or deep strike to do so but do not have them counting towards the army's strength while in reserve.

I would venture to say that the rule for the game type is more specific as there are rules for certain units that allow them to be placed in reserve "even if the mission doesn't allow it", so if they don't have that qualifier then they can't be in reserves even if they're required to do so. That's just my .02 though.

That's completely valid also. Zagstruk's rules kind of imply that since he "must" deep strike but it's not explicit. I know some people play no reserves in KT even if it says "even if the mission doesn't allow it". With absolutely no guidance offered in the kill team rules other than - no reserves - there's no right answer.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChrisCP wrote:He has a 'special name' so our group just doesn't play him.

You don't play any special characters? So no all wolf guard armies? No Deathwing or Ravenwing armies? No sternguard as troops armies?

Sternguard as troops?

This is a new concept.

Do enlighten us, which named character makes Sternguards Troops?

Play Kill Zone and get them to include it in the FAQ if it's not already. That game is like Kill Teams without the suck.