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So I've been considering adding a Chaos Lord to my Slaanesh army but didn't know how to go about doing this and not waste any of his potential at the same time while keeping him relatively cheap.

My army has both a Terminator squad with combi-meltas, heavy flamer, a chainfist and a Landraider, and a Raptor squad with two meltaguns and a pair of Lightning Claws. I was planning on sticking my Lord into one of these two groups, but that all depends on how I use him.

My two current set up ideas are as follows:

Chaos Lord w/ wings/jump pack, pair of LC, and MoS - 145 pts

Chaos Terminator Lord w/ pair of LC, and MoS - 135 pts

The first would obviously run with the Raptor squad and be a second pair of LC to wreak even more havoc.
The second (which I'm leaning more towards atm) would run with the Terminators and either DS onto the board with them or cruise in their LR for a nasty assault.

I understand both of them are much cheaper without the pairs of LC, and I can honestly understand not running with them, power weapons are cheaper and allows them to have ranged attacks. But the rerolls on wounds and sheer coolness is hard to pass up, especially since they will be running in squads that already have ranged support.

Any experience/tips/badgering would be helpful and welcome!

Zech

P.S. The army I run already has a Lash Daemon Prince w/ Wings, and I like DPs but I feel almost too powerful running two of them in the same army.

the only reason to ever run a lord is because you are going to use the demon weapon. otherwise the demon prince or sorcerer is the better choice. the slaaneshi demon weapon got alot better when everyone started taking those damn thunderwolves...

AbaddonFidelis wrote:the only reason to ever run a lord is because you are going to use the demon weapon. otherwise the demon prince or sorcerer is the better choice. the slaaneshi demon weapon got alot better when everyone started taking those damn thunderwolves...

+1 to that advice.

Wings and Blissgiver makes for a nice addition to a Raptor squad. If you have spare points, a Combi-Melta is never a bad thing since its BS5. Just remember that the Raptor squad needs to be 6-8 guys strong to act as a reasonable bulletsponge for the Chaos Lord, otherwise you might get dakka'd down too easily.

In general, Chaos HQs and Terminator armor don't mix because we don't have a very effective delivery system for them.

agree. always take a combi weapon. usually melta.

Even if the squad he is running in already either has 3/4 combi-meltas or 2 standard meltas?

yes. because its only 5 points, even if the benefit is marginal it hardly cost you anything to bring it. 0.0025% of your total point allocation in a 2000 point game. there's basically no down side to taking it.

Hm, hadn't thought of that, was trying to squeeze points out where I could for extra troops before.

I've read the Daemon Weapons before, and although the Blissgiver is awesome, it would seem any time I'm fighting something with multiple wounds these days they are also immune to instant death. =/

That, and the other reason I didn't originally consider it was for the fact that it's more expensive + chance to wound myself for the extra points I spent on it! A roll of 1 out of 6 isn't a high chance unless I didn't want to roll a 1.

Even if the army already has a LR built in I still shouldn't consider a Terminator Lord? Even if he brings with him the Blissgiver?

Point comparison:

Chaos Lord w/ wings/jump pack, pair of LC, and MoS - 145 pts
*NEW* Chaos Lord w/ wings/jump pack, Blissgiver, MoS, and Combi-Melta - 165

Chaos Terminator Lord w/ pair of LC, and MoS - 135 pts
*NEW* Chaos Terminator Lord w/ Blissgiver, MoS, and Combi-Melta - 155

Though they are 20 points extra each, and gives the terminator lord ranged power again, I'm still a bit iffy on the use of daemon weapon! Do you guys have experience with them?

I have to agree with whats been posted above. Plus zechariahsword look at it this way 155 pts is standard for a CSM HQ these days and is still less than a kitted out Necron HQ.
If you are going Termi HQ go with the sorc. For the points you get another lash that you can somewhat hide in a termi squad.
LR or no.
Plus that force weapon is super killy for hth and a familar can get you warp time as well, plus mark and combi melta your only looking at 175 pooints very effective. /

zechariahsword wrote:
Even if the army already has a LR built in I still shouldn't consider a Terminator Lord? Even if he brings with him the Blissgiver?

The issue isn't with the Terminator Lord, its with Chaos Terminators and Land Raiders. Being able to only put 5 bodies into a Land Raider and not having access to the other variants like Loyalists do mixed in with no TH/SS Terminators makes it difficult to run with Chaos "assault" Terminators.

Really you're better off using Berserkers in a Raider and in that case, you wouldn't want to lose sweeping due to a single Terminator.

zechariahsword wrote:Hm, hadn't thought of that, was trying to squeeze points out where I could for extra troops before.

I've read the Daemon Weapons before, and although the Blissgiver is awesome, it would seem any time I'm fighting something with multiple wounds these days they are also immune to instant death. =/

That, and the other reason I didn't originally consider it was for the fact that it's more expensive + chance to wound myself for the extra points I spent on it! A roll of 1 out of 6 isn't a high chance unless I didn't want to roll a 1.

Even if the army already has a LR built in I still shouldn't consider a Terminator Lord? Even if he brings with him the Blissgiver?

Point comparison:

Chaos Lord w/ wings/jump pack, pair of LC, and MoS - 145 pts
*NEW* Chaos Lord w/ wings/jump pack, Blissgiver, MoS, and Combi-Melta - 165

Chaos Terminator Lord w/ pair of LC, and MoS - 135 pts
*NEW* Chaos Terminator Lord w/ Blissgiver, MoS, and Combi-Melta - 155

Though they are 20 points extra each, and gives the terminator lord ranged power again, I'm still a bit iffy on the use of daemon weapon! Do you guys have experience with them?

most tyranid monsters and independent characters arent immune to instant death, although most armies have at least 1 bad ass that is.... thunderwolves arent immune either, which is a big deal bc they're rompy stompy and hard to kill without instant death. he can hurt himself yes but thats chaos. no guts no glory.

the issue with the terminator lord in the land raider is concentration of points. basically you're creating an extremely tempting target for your opponent; if he can find a way to wipe it before it can deliver the terminators your whole army will be crippled. this might not be as hard as one would think.... av 14 is pretty good against lascannons but there are a couple ways to get meltaguns up close to a land raider on turn 1 or 2, so you really have to be careful. raiders in general are a high risk high reward unit that become less and less attradctive the more competitive your matches get. put simply if you start beating too much face with it people will start looking for ways to kill it early. most books have some fairly effective ways to do it so in alot of your match ups you'll find the raider getting aced early on, or else you'll be stretching your inginuity to protect it. thats true of SM land raiders, CSM land raiders are even less popular because their weapon pattern isnt particularly threatening and they have reduced transport capacity. for 250 points most csm players have concluded they arent worth it, at least not if your just bringing 1 anyway.
AF

yeah, i'd go with the jump lord. chaos hq are generally uber-killy bullet sponges that are only good in CC so why take something that doesn't get to where its supposed to be in the first place? LRs, for all of their upsides, are linebreakers first and transports second. also, its the same idea as the transport boats used in the Normandy Invasion of 1944: they're BSTs (Big Slow Targets, or, in your case, Big Slaaneshi Targets). but yeah, ranged power? take a sorcerer. want something killy in CC? take anything else.

While AF’s points are more or less Valid, I’d like to point out the cost for a Chaos LR is 220. Imperial LR are more expensive (and useful) due to having POTMS. I’d also like to point out that chaos only having access to 1 10 man LR really kills the Lord + retinue + LR strategy.

Generally the Bezerkers + LR combo has been tried and tested and is more popular due to Chaos terminators not having access to anything that can make them fearless and only being able to run max 4 in any lord + terminator strategy. Although I can see a terminator + LR strategy working if a local gaming scene isn’t very mech tastic/IG tastic/SW tastic but realistically that is probably unlikely. .

I would suggest running your lord with your raptors and your 5 terminators in your LR. Including your Lash DP, this essentially gives your opponent 3 high priority targets to distract their attention. I would suggest having the lord + raptor unit strike at vulnerable/unprepared units whilst the Lash DP uses lash of submission to extend the assault range of the terminators.

oh crap. did I get the cost wrong?

You didn't get the cost wrong, just applied it to the wrong LR. LRs do cost 250 points; for SM. They are 220 for CSM.

However you did mention the moving Meltas up close and personal to take out a LR: Wouldn't the best defense for that be the fact that it is carrying assault-immediately Terminators with a Terminator Lord? If the LR is moving by itself and they are trying to flank it, It'd be pretty noticeable methinks. That, and if they are sending their meltas after my LR, then it's also doing part of its job! If they are trying to take it down they aren't targeting my Rhinos full of scoring units, DP, Obliterators, Defiler, or my Raptor Squad. And for 220 points with the ability to shoot back with TL Lascannons, I personally didn't think that was a bad deal honestly.

I'm still torn though! Now I want to get 4 different Chaos Lords just to try each one out (LCs and Daemon Weapons for each the jump and termie)!

well.... consider the land speeder storm. it costs something like 70 points and carries a 5 man scout squad that costs maybe another 70. the unit can carry two melta guns and has the scout ability, which it can use to turbo boost and then immediately make a normal move, deploy the scouts, and fry the land raider turn 1. its bad enough that they get the tank like this, but its even worse that your terminators have to walk afterwards. yeah they'll clobber the scouts but so what? after that they're next to useless to you because they dont have the mobility to get into the fight. Your opponent can either blow them away with long range fire power or ignore them, whatever is most convenient. if its just terminators you've lost 1/4 of your army. if its terminators and the lord 1/3. thats why the land raider with terminators and lord is something to avoid. its concentrating too many points on one unit. dont take my word for it though.... try it.

as for the lords.... the best demon weapon by far imo is the blood feeder. when this thing goes off it lays waste whole squads at init 5. they dont even get to strike back. they just die. very satisfying.
AF

I have personally never seen a Land Speeder Storm in action! Much less someone fielding one at all where I am at. Now that I know that it exists, it's definitely something to consider.

yeah. and its not just space marines. other books have some options for taking down land raiders on turn 1. most books should be able to reliably pwn a land raider by turn 2 unless you're conducting your whole movement phase around the idea of protecting it.

The jump lord is what i think is the best of the builds (the one w/ blissgiver, MoS, and combi-melta). He is best going toe to toe with big guys, because the instant they are hit, no more problems. And he can move wicked fast. This is one of the best builds there is. (I actually run that guy regularly, and he does some massive damage)

I think I'll make one of each with Blissgiver and give them both a try! At the very least, at least they both look pretty boss, so no loss in having cool looking models hanging around.

Looks like if I'm having a fun game I take the termie lord, if I'm having a competitive one, the jump lord. Either way they will have a DP body guard somewhere on the field!

AbaddonFidelis wrote:the only reason to ever run a lord is because you are going to use the demon weapon. otherwise the demon prince or sorcerer is the better choice. the slaaneshi demon weapon got alot better when everyone started taking those damn thunderwolves...

I disagree. A Lord is a good choice for an HQ unit when you want something that adds to the unit he is in.

If you are going to run a Plasma Gun Havoc Squad, a Lord is a good choice to put in there for added protection in HtH combat. Give him a Power Weapon and Combi Melta.

A Raptor Squad really benefits from a Lord in them for the added shock factor.

A Daemon Prince is nice if want a Fire Magnet, a Lord is a good choice if you want some added punch to a unit and don't want all sorts of nastiness to go towards your HQ.

I do, however, agree that a Lord should never be run without a combi weapon of some sort.

a sorcerer is a more effective back up bc he can take warp time and/or lash of submission. a lord without a demon weapon is basically just an overstuffed sergeant.

And there is nothing wrong with that, as long as that's the reason why your taking him.

if i ever take a chaos lord (which is next to never) its a nurgle lord on a bike with the nurgle demon weapon. Its a poisoned power weapon that lets me re-roll wounds on MEQ toughness and less

Yeah I was gonna say exactly what evilsponge said. The best HQ to follow the raptors around would be the nurgle bike lord. T6 means you can send him into a big squad of slogging power armor by himself like long fangs with no worries. Against tyranid HQs the t6 makes it harder to wound him and wounding on 4's means he should do damage comparable to blissgiver. After the nurgle bike lord, I would just take abbadon. He takes up the same space as another termie HQ, and for more points you get much more power.

With out jumping into any of the on going arguments I will throw out my favorite Lord I used to run with my Slaanesh Marines before I sold them off.

Terminator Lord MoS 2LCs with: 3 Terminators w/LCs+Asp Champ w/ LCs MoS in a Land Raider. It is a really fun unit, especially if you have a lash. Run the raider up lash a unit into assault range of the Lord and his guys who got out and eat the unit alive. I5 and a ton of LCs rerolling wounds is just brutal. YMMV but I don't enjoy Daemon weapons.