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To preface: I just started playing again, missed all of 4th edition and landed in 5th edition. I love the Harlequins and removing them from the list is not an option, although I could maybe be talked in to reducing their numbers slightly. I've played a few 1500 point games with the following list.

Farseer
Runes of Warding
Runes of Witnessing
Spirit Stones
Doom
Fortune
155 pts

2X
Dire Avengers (10)
Exarch w/2X catapults
Bladestorm
Wave Serpent w/Bright Lances
Spirit Stones
594 pts

3X
Harlequins (10) w/5X Harlequin's Kiss
Troupe Master w/Power Weapon
Shadowseer
750 pts

total =1499

Obviously this list is going to have its deficiencies. I got spanked by IG and DE but then proceeded to demolish some mob heavy Orks and gaunt heavy 'Nids. Basically, I just distract my opponent with the Harlequins--they are surprisingly survivable with the Shadowseer's power and fortune--and hide the Dire Avengers until I fly them out to seize objectives or blast away at soft squishy targets. The farseer hangs with the avengers though I sometimes march him behind the Harlequins. My questions, would it make sense to drop the Dire Avengers in favor of some bike squads and not even pretend I can damage tanks? Would it make sense to scale back the Harlequin's Kisses and other upgrades for fusion pistols or possibly a second farseer who can cast fortune? Would it make sense to buy some Death Jesters? I do love the models, but I'm almost always running the units anyways, so shooting doesn't really happen anyways. Your thoughts?

it wuld make sence to buy some tanks with heavy anti tank in this game nowa days as alot of people, if not all people take tanks (and obv MC in nids)

If I were to run a list like this I would try something like this:

Eldrad - 210
3 Harlequin Squads ~ 750 (as you listed, although I might drop them down to 9 and try to get more kisses and/or 2 fusions in each)
2x5 Dire Avengers in Falcon w/ EML, Shuriken Cannon, HF, SS ~ 500

You lose some anti-infantry and anti-tank but gain extra survivability which bodes well for your Reserve + objective grab strategy.

You should have some points left over for a small Jetbike squad - although you might have to drop another Harlequin or two.

The list in it's pure form, competetive(no), Fun (HELL YES), Flavorful(YES).

You are combining footslog and Mech which can be pulled off I am just not certain if it works that well. And i have never seen a list that runs more that 10 Harles, but that's just my environment.

I must admit that I also love harles though, but too many are just not worth it. And they don't kill tanks as well as previous editions anymore.

At least so far, the footslogging hasn't really been a problem for the Harlequins. The Veil of Tears gives them a big advantage. When my opponents have only had Harlequin units to shoot at, they've wasted a lot of turns not being able to see the unit they targeted, losing their shooting for that round. Is this commonly effective for Eldar players, or have I just been getting lucky? Fortune also really helps keep them alive. Yes, tanks are a problem. If my wave serpents get destroyed, which they have in every game so far, I just have to do my best to avoid tanks all together.

Is the all tank army that came out around the time of Armageddon still legal? If so, I don't think my list could ever beat it, no matter what luck I had or mistakes my opponent made.

I would try to fit in some fusion postols for some tank/MC busting.

Purple:

I'm in much the same boat as you. I quit playing for quite a while and came back with a footy Eldar army that is no longer "competitive". (I have massed guardians instead of harlies).

So, your list isn't going to be competitive with that setup. You can definitely hold your own against other casual players, but don't go into a game vs a serious player and expect to stand a chance. You'd need significantly more tank killing for that to be possible.

And, no, Armored Company is no longer legit. However, the current meta-game is to take tons of Tanks and squads in transports, neither of which you can deal with.

Even for casual games, I'd recommend you buy Fusion Pistols for every Harlie squad. AP1 makes a huge difference vs tanks.

Yeah I would also suggest the fusion pistols. Honestly, harlies without Kisses are just 22 point chaos demons that you have to get a little closer to shoot (22 points when you factor in the upgrade for the shadowseer). I don't run harlies because I have found that even with doom, if you don't do a good amount of damage to the opponent on your first turn of combat, you are going to lose a lot more points wise than they did when they swing back. But when I did run them, I pretty much had a kiss on every model. As you noted its nice that they really can't be shot til they are getting semi close to assault range, and with that kind of saturation you should be able to hit their lines with some decent numbers. I still just kinda doubt that their points cost warrants it.

That being said, I love harlies, and I salute you for holding true to having a fluffy army. I came so close to making the all harlie army in 3rd edition, and then they snuffed it out.

P.S. Almost forgot, I think the max squads of DA are kind of a waste. They are good at killing troops and maybe sniping an MC if you get lucky with guide and doom. Some Fire dragons in another serpent could give you some of that anti tank you wanted. Also, I would strongly consider eldrad. Attatch him to one of the squads of harlies, and then he can cast 3 powers, including one twice. Two of those squads fortuned up as they go in, or two of your enemies squads doomed as you hit the lines could be nice.

nickthewise wrote:If I were to run a list like this I would try something like this:

Eldrad - 210
3 Harlequin Squads ~ 750 (as you listed, although I might drop them down to 9 and try to get more kisses and/or 2 fusions in each)
2x5 Dire Avengers in Falcon w/ EML, Shuriken Cannon, HF, SS ~ 500

You lose some anti-infantry and anti-tank but gain extra survivability which bodes well for your Reserve + objective grab strategy.

You should have some points left over for a small Jetbike squad - although you might have to drop another Harlequin or two.

This is what I would run as well, perhaps opting for an extra doom/fortune/stones farseer in addition to eldrad so that you can give two units of harlies fortune, doom two enemy units, and guide a falcon. The falcons will give you some nice AT and combined with guide effectively gives you a TL EML and TL Pulse laser. Fusion pistols are okay, but you'll likely be caught in an explosion if you roll high enough and probably lose one or two that way. They're nice vs. terminators too, although harlies vs. assault termies isn't a great idea. I like a Death Jester in Kill Team, but normal 40K sees them getting off one turn of shooting (maybe two if you get a really good Hit and Run roll) so ask yourself if they're worth the points. I'd rather get a Troupe Leader with Power Weapon for the higher Ld, the extra Attack, and S4 power weapon attacks on the charge.

P.S. Almost forgot, I think the max squads of DA are kind of a waste. They are good at killing troops and maybe sniping an MC if you get lucky with guide and doom. Some Fire dragons in another serpent could give you some of that anti tank you wanted. Also, I would strongly consider eldrad. Attatch him to one of the squads of harlies, and then he can cast 3 powers, including one twice. Two of those squads fortuned up as they go in, or two of your enemies squads doomed as you hit the lines could be nice.

While I agree on the max DA squads (they're really just there to make the Falcons scoring units) I do not recommend attaching Eldrad to a unit of Harlies - he doesn't have Fleet! Instead attach him to a DA unit and stick him in a Falcon. He'll get a few inches extra range on Fortune and Doom (measure from hull!) and he'll not be targetable when meched up. The falcons can advance just behind the harlies, staying close enough to fortune. Remember to use cover to your advantage when moving - Harlies ignore terrain and Falcons can get around/over most of it so this kind of army is highly mobile. Adding a squad of GJB and holding them in reserve for late-game objective grabbing is one thing I'd go for as you increase in points, as well as dropping a falcon for a serpent for the DA's so you can pick up a pair of prisms or a pair of wraithlords. Of course, the pervasive Fire Dragons in a Serpent are just sooo good they're hard to pass up.

Ahh yeah, forgot about him not having fleet. Good call on that. So leave in a vehicle afterall.

Yeah, plus he doesn't have Hit and Run, which I've found must be used very effectively for this to work at all. Thanks for the suggestions so far! I definitely like the Dire Avenger/Falcon combo idea. Although would it make more sense to take the missile launchers o something else? I've never had much use for the EML in the past. Also, I'm not sure how much I like the idea of using Eldrad. I know they changed the whole 'need your opponents permission' with special characters thing but the idea of using them still makes me feel dirty.

And I have toyed with the idea of cutting down the number of Harlies in favor of more Kisses, but then I'm worried that with losses to shooting and general mishaps, I'll still be getting about the same number into combat on average anyways.

EML are awesome!!!

I mean, they're not any better than the used to be, but the game has changed around them. With Fire Dragons, you don't need as many BL as you once did. And, with Star Cannons loosing a shot, they're worthless (so sad, I have Star Cannons on so many models).

Basically, if you have the points, either go EML or Scatter Laser.

As for Special Characters, I can understand where you're coming from. But, don't think of them as the actual named guy any more. Now, you can always take one (or more) in an army. No point restrictions, no special permissions. They just count as a HQ (sometimes not) choice with specific wargear and no upgrades. I take Eldrad, but just think of him as a really powerful Farseer, nothing more.

So, if I were to incorporate most of your suggestions, wise as they seem, my army would then look something like this:

Eldrad
210 pts

2X
Dire Avengers (5)
120 pts

3X
Harlequins (10) w/5X Harlequin's Kiss
Troupe Master w/Power Weapon
Shadowseer
750 pts

2X
Falcons
EML
Spirit Stones
Holo-Field
360 pts

For a grand total of 1440. With that extra 60 points, I could max out the Harlie squads with 2 fusion pistols a piece, or buy some combination of fusion pistols and kisses, or possibly drop a few harlequins in favor of something else.

I like it. Definately add the Fusion Pistols to the Harlies. If you haven't checked it out yet, the vehicle damage table has totally changed. You need AP1 to get the old 50% destroyed on penetrating and 1/6 for glancing. Without AP1, you can't destroy on a glance and only on a penetrating 1/3 of the time.

With this list, you'll need to make sure the Falcons survive! If your opponent takes them out, you'll be in serious trouble trying to run 2 squads of Avengers around to capture objectives.

I would run this version of your list if that's the models I had available.

210 - Eldrad

60 - 5x Dire Avengers
60 - 5x Dire Avengers

270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols
270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols
270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols

180 - Falcon, Holo-field, EML, Stones
180 - Falcon, Holo-field, EML, Stones

1500 pts.

Personally, I would run something like this though:

210 - Eldrad
88 - Farseer, Fortune, Spear

95 - 5x Rangers
95 - 5x Rangers
95 - 5x Rangers
95 - 5x Rangers

270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols
270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols
270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols

Just using the fluff anyway, I consider rangers the best choice to accompany harlequins. so this is purely a fluff-oriented attempt.

Yeah, I've gone through the new rulebook a couple times. Th eonly other thing I was thinking was to squeeze numbers a bit to add a wraithlord, but the fusion pistols are the superior choice I believe.

I've also heard that we may be able to add Harlequins to DE forces, so perhaps I'll have to dust off my old Dark Eldar and run both and Eldar and Dark Eldar Harlequin based force. Dark Eldar rules will probably have units more similar to the old journal all Harlequin force anyways.

Zain60-
You think that 10 Harlequin Kisses would be more effective than 5 Harlequin Kisses and a Troupe leader w/power weapon?

In essence, yes. Although if points were no issue I'd go with a Troupe Master w/PW, Shadowseer, and All kisses. I don't think I'd ever use bare harlequins without kisses.

Last question: As I've only played a very limited number of games in this new edition, are there any game scenarios where my list will generally fair better/worse?

Well, in objective missions you may struggle with only 2 scoring units (maybe find points for a small jetbike or Ranger squad)- although you'll have a slight advantage as those scoring units are tucked away in Falcons and held in reserve. This makes it easier to keep them alive and just turbo boost towards objectives at the end of the game. Meanwhile your Harlequins tie up whatever is contesting other objectives.

Similarly, you don't have many kill points in your army. Your army isn't especially killy, but can probably pull off victories by concentrating on just getting one more KP than your opponent.

In short, your army should do fairly well with the 5th edition missions. It's not going to slaughter the other army often, but you should be able to manage to secure a tie or minor victory with good strategery.

the list would get destroyed by mech,why not run some wraithlords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zain60 wrote:I would run this version of your list if that's the models I had available.

210 - Eldrad

60 - 5x Dire Avengers
60 - 5x Dire Avengers

270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols
270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols
270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols

180 - Falcon, Holo-field, EML, Stones
180 - Falcon, Holo-field, EML, Stones

1500 pts.

Personally, I would run something like this though:

210 - Eldrad
88 - Farseer, Fortune, Spear

95 - 5x Rangers
95 - 5x Rangers
95 - 5x Rangers
95 - 5x Rangers

270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols
270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols
270 - 10x Harlequins, (10) Kisses, Shadowseer, 2x Fusion Pistols

Just using the fluff anyway, I consider rangers the best choice to accompany harlequins. so this is purely a fluff-oriented attempt.

Farmer wrote:
the list would get destroyed by mech,why not run some wraithlords.

Zain60 wrote:
I would run this version of your list if that's the models I had available.


Just using the fluff anyway, I consider rangers the best choice to accompany harlequins. so this is purely a fluff-oriented attempt.

If you quote me, please read me.

No one was saying it was super- or even sort of- competitive. My 1850 Harlie oriented list has 3 Wraithlords, Avatar, and Eldrad, but it's hard
to fit all those supporting elements at 1500 and even be able to run 2 squads of 10 harlies. At 1500 running 30 harlies is obviously not 'optimized'