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Playing against Eldar in Spearhead/Command-n-Control, my base was invaded by outflankers of the enemy. I had a unit of Shootaboys in the rear of the base; however, my placement of this rearguard did not make for a favorable outcome. I won't go into what happened, but it lead me to a question: Is it prudent (and legal) to deploy a (strong) unit along the table-edge bordered to block the outflankers? It also occurred to me to keep this rearguard unit 13" away from the back edges to prevent an assault; my reservation on that tactic is that my shooty hoard takes up so much space already.

or Do what IG players do and use cheaper, throw away units to slow the outflankers down enough to give you a chance to react.

@Alarmingrick,

I had a similar thought, but discounted for two reasons: one, shoota boys are already cheap enough; and, two, grots would have no chance at all even stalemating most outflankers, poor green boogers. I do use a 29 grot mob to vanguard; that is, absorb bullets and chainswords. I'm comfortable with this arrangement, because, like I told my group, I'd rather get it in the face than in the bum!

I must admit to having conga-lined guardsmen the length of the table edge, thus not allowing flankers to make it onto the table in the first place. perfectly legal but not very nice.

Nice is for grandmas (yours though, not mine). For tournaments, the rules the limit!

But, wait -- does the "conga-lined" unit disallow the outflankers from entering the board?

It's also not a good allocation of your forces.

Commit to crushing what your opponent has on the board, and deal with what comes in from Outflank as it arrives. Especially with Orks.

"We duzzent need no weedy tricks like dat! Jus' run at 'em and krump 'em real good like. Hurr hurr hurr"

thunderingjove wrote:But, wait -- does the "conga-lined" unit disallow the outflankers from entering the board?

It does if the flanking unit cannot move onto the board without coming within 1" of any of your models.

As Monster Rain says its not the best use of your troops but my Guard usually have bodies to spare for it if necessary whilst crushing other stuff with artillery and Vendettas

@Konort Ranger,

What becomes of the unit if it can't enter the board?

big question...

I sense a hard debate.

Ahhh the million dollar question, an in depth discussion of which is in the YMDC forum somewhere about a week or so ago. A quick search for 'denied outflanking' should get you close

"oops" :-) Some games can end without getting a unit on the table due to blocking deployment in say, "Dawn of War" games... But I saw lines of Kroot/IG deployed along a flank to screen and prevent the flankers coming on the board in specific areas... Workes against most things, now, a tank coming in and shocking, not as much...

Assuming it can tank shock (pivoting on the spot off the board before required...)

Although, if your unit is really totally dispossable, you can leave a little gap at the very end by your opponents board edge. That way, there's no rules dispute as the unit can move on, and you force them into the worst location available. Your disposable unit will get assaulted though. Plus, they'll have to react and move 6" towards the combat, leaving the next outflankers easy access to your shootas.

The main reason I did it was to force a unit of Flayed Ones to the opposite board edge where they would play little to no part in the battle. Last thing I wanted was to be in combat with them

Here's the best example of this I've ever seen. This was a tournament, white scars all-bike army versus tau. The white scars player reserved their whole army and the tau player infiltrated his kroot around the entire board so that there were no edges to come in on. Instant victory and epic trolling, just look at that smug bastard.



Of course if the white scars player had at least 1 tank they could have tank shocked a hole for their army to come in through.

lol. Ive heard tales of this incident but never realised there was photo evidence. He does look just a little too deserving of a slap tho......

^ Of course

I definitely use squads to block outflankers. This is just one example from a deployment phase:



You cant' quite see it, but the blob squad in the lower left goes all the way back down to the corner. Of course, you don't want to buy units just to stop outflankers, but if you've got dudes with nothing better to do...

Also, of course, this tactic is EASILY countered by vehicles (tank shock) and anything that's a skimmer (including things like jetbikes, koptaz, and the like).

Simple answer to the edge-denial: it's not covered by the rules. What happened in the tournament that picture is from is they made a TO call on it. I believe Gwar!'s call was that if you follow the rules exactly the game just stop at that point (or in his words "break").

Yeah its certainly not foolproof, just opportunistic and lasts only as long as the line is left completely alone

One of my friends takes a unit or two of Imperial Guard with no upgrades and lines it up on the board edges (or his own edge when facing Snikrot or Wolf Scouts). While these units usually can't block the whole edge, they can at least prevent the enemy from coming onto the most threatening positions. From a fluff standpoint, he says it represents central command sending out pickets to prevent enemies taking the main force by surprise.

Keep in mind that tank shocking onto the board is somewhat dubious rules-wise.

thunderingjove wrote:@Alarmingrick,

I had a similar thought, but discounted for two reasons: one, shoota boys are already cheap enough; and, two, grots would have no chance at all even stalemating most outflankers, poor green boogers. I do use a 29 grot mob to vanguard; that is, absorb bullets and chainswords. I'm comfortable with this arrangement, because, like I told my group, I'd rather get it in the face than in the bum!

Well, if you're running shoota boyz then it wouldn't be bad if the grots got killed off, leaving the outflankers to be shot and charged next turn. That's just my take on it though.

That was my second turn vs double wolf scouts on the "Stadtmeisterschaften" tournament.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2010/8/10/849a454322fefab51a2405e04deb6df2_32486.jpg

(the first squad got killed by the flankers) the second appeared to come onto the table turn 4 and at the side which was blocked. We both knew the problem, smiled at each other, went to the judge and he decided "stay in reserve", which I was perfectly fine with, as "destroyed" is simply not in the rules. And turn 5 they automatically came onto the table and were beaten in Assault by the CCS...

Let's return this conversation to tactics (although I do thank you all for You-Make-Da-Call deviation): Is it more prudent to keep the vanguard 13" away from the table edge than against the board, so as to deny the assault?

thunderingjove wrote:Let's return this conversation to tactics (although I do thank you all for You-Make-Da-Call deviation): Is it more prudent to keep the vanguard 13" away from the table edge than against the board, so as to deny the assault?

Yes! If your opponent has a unit outflanking, you need to prepare for it. Don't leave a vital unit in easy assault range if that flanking unit comes in on the nearest board edge.

But, remember, some flanking units have jump packs or fleet or something, so they can cover a distance longer than 12".

There are, of course, times when you should just gamble that a flanker will come in on the wrong (for your opponent) board edge. It only happens 1/3 of the time, but there are times you need to get close to the edge to avoid another unit or get proper cover.

@Grakmar,

Thanks for that. I'm relatively new to playing, and only know the Ork Codex well. I tried (and failed) to get one of my local opponents to forward me a list of all the outflankers in 40K; it seemed more appropriate than asking for it her on dakkadakka.

thunderingjove wrote:Nice is for grandmas (yours though, not mine). For tournaments, the rules the limit!

But, wait -- does the "conga-lined" unit disallow the outflankers from entering the board?

Tanks however may "Tank shock" onto the board.

Skimmers and Jump infantry can also fly over.


BTW: i think it's a duche move to do this. you are basically saying you are such a poor general that the only way to win is to exploit what is obviously a loophole in the rules to win the game by legally cheating.

if you did this to me in a tourny i would give you a Sportsmanship score of -10

It's not just a 'duche' move to get at a loophole... it's not a loophole, it's a hole.

It DEMANDS a judget to come over.
It DEMANDS a house rule.

IMO, both players are idiots.
-one player went to full reserves with no thought to enemy composition and sets himself up.
-the other player that actually starts the whole fething issue by 'going for it.'

In my opinion, just to show how un-douchey I am, the outflankers should be allowed on the table, despite the 1" separation rule; you could argue, Assaults onto the table, etc. But I wrote asking the tactics of the thing, which the first two lines of Grey Knight's post provides. Thank you.

wait, why is deploying at the edges douchery? Do you think that spacing your models 2" apart to avoid casualties from blast and template weapons is being a douche? Is castling up to keep deepstrikers away from vehicles or objectives being a douche?

I fail to see how keeping some troops near the rear and flanks in order to prevent surprise mobility is a sign of poor form, it's just common sense.

Or would you have been one of those ancient generals who decided that your baggage train didn't need defending?

I think this is a valid move (as long as the consequences are clarified before and known by both players (what happens with the unit? Can the opponent tank shock from off the table?).

Otherwise I have to say that 2,9" gaps between vehicles (infantry cannot move through) are douche moves too, because it is somehow exploiting the 1" rule.
It is not a matter of sportsmanship to use rules in your favour. If your opponent doesnt know anything about it and you say to him the unit is destroyed, this is unfair, because it doesnt have to be true.

I have to admit in early days of my gaming I was killed by this move too in a tournament by a friend of mine. He closed my reserve edge with his kroot and stated: "game over". I thought I could tank shock, but I couldnt (4th edition). The judge was actually more pissed by that move than I was
But the guy said, ok now you know it and we start again playing. And he still massacred me... ;(
But I still bow to him for this.