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I'm building up my Daemons army, and wondering what the general consensus is on splitting waves for Daemonic Assault and the use of Icons. Is it better to frontload your waves with all the killy stuff first and troops after, or to play with a more balanced split? How many Icons should be used and what waves should they be in? The other threads on this topic are over a year old, so I figured it was time to see if any new tactics have evolved. I'm mostly interested in advice regarding the list below, but would also love to see more general tips and tricks for others joining the Unholy Legions.


My List:
HQ:
Skulltaker + Juggernaut
Great Unclean One

Elites:
2x Bloodcrushers
+ Icon
3x Bloodcrushers
+ Fury of Khorne
+ Icon

Troops:
10x Bloodletters
10x Bloodletters
5x Plaguebearers
5x Plaguebearers

Heavy Support:
Daemon Prince
+ Daemonic Flight
+ Iron Hide
+ Mark of Nurgle
+ Noxious Touch
+ Cloud of Flies
Daemon Prince
+ Daemonic Flight
+ Iron Hide
+ Mark of Nurgle
+ Noxious Touch
+ Cloud of Flies
1500pts


These are the waves I came up with:

Wave 1: Great Unclean One, Bloodcrushers, Skulltaker+Bloodcrushers, Prince, Prince.

Wave 2: Bloodletters, Bloodletters, Plaguebearers, Plaugebearers.

One of the nice things about Demonic assault is, that you do not have to decide on the waves until your first turn. So don't decide. Let your Opponent deploy and then decide. But, I always put an Icon in each wave. I had an eight game streak of not getting my preferred wave.

As an aside, can I ask why you don't run units of four Bloodcrushers. For 200 points your get four unique models that require 5 wounds before one dies.

Nice list Claypool. It has enough strengths to circumvent weaknesses. My only questions are whether having only two fast units and no shooting whatsoever wont make you vulnerable to some lists. However in 1500 points there is not a lot of room to diversify so you may have to manage.

In my 1700 points list there is only 1 Icon (on a unit of 4 Crushers). I find it's enough. I find myself not using the Icon even when I have the opportunity since tactical advantage often outweighs the chance of scattering for me.

About selecting the waves. What I do is overload the primary wave threatwise, but compensating that by having more units in the second wave. Like you I want most troops in the second wave. When I get my secondary wave I tend to deploy much more conservatively and play somewhat defensively untill reinforcements arrive. Kairos offers luxury in that you can afford to take risks a bit more.

Example, my 1700 points list is like this:
Kairos / Herald of Tzeentch w. Chariot, Bolt, MoS / Blue Scribes / 3 Flamers / 6 Fiends w. UM / 4 Bloodcrushers w. evrything / 9 Horrors w. Bolt and Changeling / 2x 5 Plaguebearers / 2x Prince of Tzeentch w. Bolt and Gaze

I mostly divide this army as follows:

Primary: Kairos, Scribes, Fiends, Crushers, 1 Prince

Secondary: Herald, Flamers, Horrors, 2x Plaguebearers, 1 Prince

This way if I do get my secondary wave I offer my opponent more targets and hopefully reduce the vulnerability of that wave. Also I make sure to have some shooting in my second wave to make sure I do have some options.

In your list I'd do this:

Primary: GUO, 1 Crushers w. Skulltaker, 1 or both Prince, 1 Bloodletters

Secondary: 1 Crushers, 1 Bloodletters, 1 or no Prince, both Plaguebearers.

The Prince dilemma would be dependant on the opponent. Heavy in shooting? Put both in the first wave to dilute his shooting. Focussed on assault and mobility? Maybe then 1 in the secondary.

Hope this helps...

Cilithan

Thanks for the tips guys.

@Cilithan

I'm wary of exposing my Bloodletters to too much incoming fire by putting them in the first wave. What are your thoughts on that?

I have recently started a Tzeentch and Slaneesh daemons list at 1500 points and have won 3 of the 3 games I have played so far. What has worked for me has been balanced waves. I have 3 Heralds of Tzeench and 1 DP of Tzeench and I usually split them 2 and 2. The reason is that I am dependent on them for long range and anti transport. If I was to front load one wave, there is a 33% chance you would not get any ranged anti tank and be screwed. I also run a squad of 3 flamers that I usually try to get in turn 1. So far I have used these to deter castling from my opponents and to take a risky deep strike for a potential reward of putting mass wounds on clumped targets. Otherwise I have 2 fiend squads and split one per wave. I think balanced waves are the key. I would not try to frontload as you are putting a 1/3 chance on being very unhappy.

As to the question of Icons: I don't use them *gasp*

Daemons are inherently risky. You have to take risks to win. By taking Icons, you are far too likely to stay too far back and not take necessary chances. This is a bit easier with a Slannesh based list and I can fleet to make up distance though. Deep striking can be risky, but remember if you land in difficult terrain, you take a dangerous terrain test (and you can take inv saves against this). The reward is that you get a cover save and protection from enemy charges. I'd say it's worth it. Also, the average scatter is 7" so plan accordingly. Just stay around 10" from the board edge and enemy models and you should be ok.If you MUST take icons, then take one in each wave. Give it to something that is relatively durable and is looking to set up your assault troops a decent distance away.

As to your list, you lack a lot of speed and anti tank. I feel like either Soul Grinders, Heralds of Tzeench w bolt, or Tzeench DP with bolt are essential to compete. You can blow up tanks in CC, that isn't a huge issue. You need to be able to pop transports are range though. If you cannot, you face the wraith of the unit getting to come out, shoot you, and then take the charge from you.