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I have a 1000-1500 (roughly) point Empire Army.

At the moment I can field

Lords/Heroes
General/captain on horseback.
Arch lector/ Warrior Priest on foot. 2handed weapon
Wizard/wizard lord on foot.
Captain BSB.

Core.
30 Spearmen
20 Handgunners
10 Archers (used as detachment mostly)
around 15 Free Company (detachment mostly)

Core/Special
21 Knights (core if normal, Special if inner circle)

Special
Cannon.

Rare
Helblaster Volley Gun
Helstorm Rocket Battery

What would be a good way to expand the army? I plan on geting more core eventually (money issues atm) and these core will likely be either swordsmen, spearmen or either ranged core option.
And what tactics would be good to employ in 8th? I played in 7th and have only played a single game of 8th to attmept to learn rules changes.

Get a 2nd cannon and 2 mortars and maybe invest in either A lot of swordsman or More Gunners also some halberds

Have halberdiers inproved since 7th?
Also buying the shields for 1pt per model on spears and halberds is worthless correct?

VikingScott wrote:Also buying the shields for 1pt per model on spears and halberds is worthless correct?

Naah just less worthwhile, halberdiers only get +1 armor outside of CC, and spearmen get the bonus armour but no parry save.

+1 for additional mortars/cannons.

For me I usually run fairly large blocks (30+) of swordsman with detachments of Halberdiers (~15) and I find that usually works pretty well...

Would definitely suggest getting a few more core troops into your army or at least for the mean time proxy units with spare models (if your opponent allows that). I find that's the best way to get a feel for an army without wasting money on models you later find out to be fairly useless. Specially if money is tight (or you're an unemployed student )

VikingScott wrote:Have halberdiers inproved since 7th?

Yeah, step up and two ranks fighting have improved halberdiers and greatswords both quite a lot. Greatswords still aren't wonderful (they've improved a lot from what they were, though) but halberdiers have become a really good option.

Also buying the shields for 1pt per model on spears and halberds is worthless correct?

They're not worthless, but they're not worth a point per model - if you get my meaning.

Would 10 strong Knights units (non-inner circle, so core.) Be effective? Or just a waste?

I've actually played that unit to decent effect.
10 plain Knights with Great Weapons (with I3, you're usually hitting last anyways, may as well get the +2S for all turns) can be quite nasty, with their 2+ armor save helping shrug off hits pretty well. Stick in a mounted Warrior Priest and they're actually quite dangerous to be charged by.

I get them used a lot against me they are actually very very destructive. They are weak to cannon or Bolt thrower fire though.

VikingScott wrote:Would 10 strong Knights units (non-inner circle, so core.) Be effective? Or just a waste?

Thing is, they're pretty cheap compared to heavy cavalry in other armies. 10 or 12 Empire knights won't cost you so many points that you absolutely need them to play a decisive role, unlike an equivalent number of more elite knights.

The thing to remember is that they’re very, very unlikely to charge into any enemy unit and just blow right through it, steadfast makes that impossible, nor do they have the killing power of more elite knights to grind a unit to death over a couple of turns.

Instead, I like to use a unit of knights to strike at the flanks of an enemy unit tied up with one of my big blocks of infantry. With the big infantry unit likely having more ranks than the enemy he’s unlikely to be steadfast, and with no rank bonus and hopefully a lot of kills from my knights we’re likely to win the combat by lots and break the enemy.

Oh, and I prefer 12 knights to 10, because that way we can take a couple of casualties and still be able to deny the enemy their rank bonus.

Nice.

1 gripe about 8th, stupid haunted mansions and wizard portals. The rest of the special terrain I don't mind that much but the shooting ones just takes the buscuit espeically if I can't move due to being in combat.

Oh and all my knights have lances not 2-h weapons. They're 2nd hand so I couldn't choose.

VikingScott wrote:Oh and all my knights have lances not 2-h weapons. They're 2nd hand so I couldn't choose.

So long as you tell your opponent that they are actually hold GW and not lances you should still be able to use them in friendly games. You could also hunt around the internet for the parts you need to change them to GW if you want.

Jake Bake A Cake wrote:

VikingScott wrote:Oh and all my knights have lances not 2-h weapons. They're 2nd hand so I couldn't choose.

So long as you tell your opponent that they are actually hold GW and not lances you should still be able to use them in friendly games. You could also hunt around the internet for the parts you need to change them to GW if you want.

I am pretty sure that there is no WYSIWYG (or similar) rule in Fantasy.

It's more common sense. If the model is wielding a lance but you brought a GW you should inform your opponent as such.

It avoids confusion later on mid game.

If you're expanding your artillery, a good rule of thumb to have is one engy per 4 artillery.

Jake Bake A Cake wrote:It's more common sense. If the model is wielding a lance but you brought a GW you should inform your opponent as such.

It avoids confusion later on mid game.

Yeah i know, Im just wanted to be a dick there (I have the flu)
it does get confusing.

Well they are the same price for either lances or great weapons.

I will think about an engineer when I get to 4 artillery peices.

VikingScott wrote:


Lords/Heroes
General/captain on horseback. Not that great.
Arch lector/ Warrior Priest on foot. 2handed weapon Awesome...run him as an AL for the bonus DD!
Wizard/wizard lord on foot. I'd go WL, just for the +4 to casting and dispel, not to mention knowing more spells
Captain BSB. Definitely a good model to take. Now every BSB does what the imperial banner used to do for 100 points!
Core.
30 Spearmen Garbage. I swear by state troops, but spearmen are horrible. Can you change the tips to halberds? Anyway, you need more staties! 2-3 blocks of melee troops at 2k points.
20 Handgunners Good! Xbows would be better (6" of additional range trumps an extra point of AP), but handguns are good.
10 Archers (used as detachment mostly) Garbage
around 15 Free Company (detachment mostly) Not terrible.

Core/Special
21 Knights (core if normal, Special if inner circle) Not bad. At least you have enough to make a couple of decent-sized units. Kaniggits are go big or go home in 8th.

Special
Cannon. One cannon is horrible, it will either carry long, or land 1" in front of the target and stick in the mud. Always take two, consider them twinlinked, you need that!

Rare
Helblaster Volley Gun Some people like these, I've never used one. Can't comment.
Helstorm Rocket Battery Awesome in 8th, I'd take two and station an engineer between them for the rerolls that you need just about every turn. If the first one hits, fire the second at a second target. If the first one misses, use the engineer to reroll. If it still misses, you have a third chance via the second weapon.
What would be a good way to expand the army? I plan on geting more core eventually (money issues atm) and these core will likely be either swordsmen, spearmen or either ranged core option.
And what tactics would be good to employ in 8th? I played in 7th and have only played a single game of 8th to attmept to learn rules changes.

I'd say you need priests/lectors for extra DD, a L4 wizard lord, a BSB, and artillery (at least a pair of cannons and a pair of templates) no matter what kind of list you have. After that, well, my personal preference is for large non-mob blocks of swordsmen or greatswords led by melee characters with melee detachments. I run 20xGS with BSB and two sets of 35x swordsmen, each with a WP or AL and a block of 15 halberdiers as a detachment. The rest of my list is a peg-wizzie, 20 shooters, 5 pistoliers, and artillery at 2k....so it's pretty much all pumped into three melee blocks with all their ancillary equipment, accoutrements, and trappings that it takes to keep mere humans from running off the board at the sight of an ork.

I'd like to point out that spearmen have been doing good for me. And your cannon experiance is worse than mine. I do extremely well with only a single cannon. 8th allowing premeasure does help a bit.

VikingScott wrote:I'd like to point out that spearmen have been doing good for me. And your cannon experiance is worse than mine. I do extremely well with only a single cannon. 8th allowing premeasure does help a bit.

Spearmen are perfectly reasonable against troops with average toughness and moderate armour. Against T3 with no save they’re actually going to inflict more wounds than halberds… it’s just that against anything more than that and the halberd edges ahead. Once you look at T4 troops with 4+ saves and thereabouts the spears are well behind.

So it depends on the armies you expect to face, but for the most part halberds come out ahead. That said, it isn’t as though any option really cranks out the kills, these are anvil units we’re talking about here.


When it comes to cannons, I think the multiple cannons are nice because you can be more confident of killing a creature in one turn. Especially when the beast has wings, you really need to kill it as quickly as possible, and one cannon is unlikely to roll enough wounds, whereas two or three almost certainly will.

Multiple cannons and multiple mortars allow you to focus your fire on key targets and pound them in a way that single artillery pieces cannot.

Multiple artillery pieces also make the master engineer a more viable option, as his cost is spread over multiple units.

I have never fielded a Master Engineer. I know vaguely what he does so will have to scrape together a model.

I remember seeing in the fb boards here before during 7th saying that halbeds were the worst option out of the 3. So this is untrue now?

Also luckily out of my local opponents only one is likely to field a monster.

I'm still yet to field an Engie with my 4 arty pieces in 8th and they haven't done too bad. I can see where he would be useful to get that must hit shot in.

I run 5x6 swords with 3x5 halberds as a detachment and find it works fairly well. Spears add nothing special in my opinion hence why I don't take them. Against low T horde armies though I could see how they might prove useful.

Alright. I know I need more state troops.

So which overall is better then?
Swordsmen
More Spearmen
Halberdiers

I would get some GS but at GW silly price for them I will probably make my own from somewhere.

As before, I like swords in big blocks and halberds as detachments and largely ignore spears.

GS are pretty snazy. I enjoy them. Facing elves most of the time means I strike last any ways and hitting back with S5 usually negates any armour they have on which is always nice =D

VikingScott wrote:I remember seeing in the fb boards here before during 7th saying that halbeds were the worst option out of the 3. So this is untrue now?

Thing is, in 7th the extra point of strength halberds got was nice, but you only got 5 models fighting, while spearmen got 10. Spears would score more kills against most targets. However, with the introduction of two ranks fighting, halberds got their attacks doubled, while spears were only increased by 50%. Now that halberds have 2/3 as many attacks, the advantage granted by the extra point of strength is enough that they're capable of more damage against high and low toughness opponents.

But with all that said, it needs to be remembered the difference between the state troops is pretty minor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jake Bake A Cake wrote:I'm still yet to field an Engie with my 4 arty pieces in 8th and they haven't done too bad. I can see where he would be useful to get that must hit shot in.

I think it's less about increasing the chance of a hit, and more about protection from misfires.

And yeh I did forget that part. For some reason forgot to mention that =S Would be helpful...