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Hi.

I've seen alot of high-WS targets hitting very badly, against extreemly low values [WS7 vs. WS2, WS2 hit 4 times and WS7 hit no times, for example.]

Well, What I'm suggesting isn't going to be something stupid like WS7 always hits against WS2.

What I was thinking, was a little like the Always strike first thing in WFB.

But, infused more into WS.

I have to ways of looking at this...

First, I can see a guardsmen charging forward into a CSM lord, slashing light handedly, only to have the attacking weapon thrown out of his hand.

Double WS give a 'heightened senses' rule.

this means that when hit, the character can strike the attack away before it can actually hurt, however this gets harder when many attacks are brought to bear. the character takes a 6+ save for every sixth attack that hits.

the other rule is if the WS is double, it can re-roll failed to-hits

I don't think I understand your first proposal. A model with double-WS automatically ignores all attacks except for multiples of 6?

And, I think the current "To hit" table in CC is a pretty good one. It represents CC being really chaotic and even the most skilled combatants can't hit with every attack. Hitting 2/3 of the time is a major advantage to hitting 1/2 of the time (or 1/3 if you're against double+1).

It would be much simpler to say a model with 2x WS hits on a 2+, but even then, I'd say that's too often (and I play with an Avatar!!!)

I'm also confused...

This just seems again like you're trying to unnecessarily complicating the game again.

If you're failing to hit with WS7 then it means you fail at dice rolling, or are not using Chaplains with your group of something.

Whereas if something is WS2, then you're probably getting several hundred (Warning Embellishment) hits on the enemy, and are bound to hit a few times.

Besides, this is a random-generation system, every once in awhile a WS7 model will be brought down by a weaker model.

Hi all.
Well we could simple say the WS is the score required to beat for the model be hit.

So
WS 2 is hit on a 2+
WS 3 is hit on a 3+
WS 4 is hit on a 4+
WS 5 is hit on a 5+
WS 6 is hit in a 6+
WS 7 is hit on a 7+
WS 8 is hit on a 8+
WS 9 or more hit on a 9+

And make a roll of;-
6 followed by 3+ =roll of 7
6 followed by 4+= roll of 8
6 followed by 5+= roll of 9

EG you always hit a WS 2 model on a 2+
You need a 6 followed by a 3+ to hit a WS 7 model.

This allows everything to hit everthing else, but makes WS about defencive capability that is DIRECTLY linked to WS.

I know I may not have explained it that well, but I hope you get the basic idea...

TTFN

So, the only way to hit an Avatar is by rolling a 6 followed by another 6? And, he already needs a 6 to be wounded by str 4. So, 1 wound for every 216 attacks! I like it, but I'd guess my opponents wouldn't.

A full Ork slugga squad might not even force him to to make his armor save!

theres a problem in that lanrak, it means that massively 'unskilled' armies, like guard armies where quantaty is its quality, it wouldn't work. see, 10 guard with 20 attacks on the charge are just as likely to hit as 10 marines with 20 attacks on the charge.

Hi folks.
I didnt say this method would work with the rest if the current rules did I?

If you improve the effectivness of WS, then you would have to re -evaluate the rest of the system!

Defensive WS is the score the OPPONENT needs to roll over to hit YOUR model.
Offencive WS is represented by the number of dice thrown when attacking.(Attacks.)

With a wider scalable range of results, the need to use extra rules to extend the scale are no longer required.

We use 'roll a 6 followed by X 'for shooting , so why not for assaults?

This was just a alternative to the current system that has a very limited range of results.

The to hit chart used to be the same as the to wound chart, with '2+' and 'no effect' .
Is this closer to what you would like ?
The rest of the game would STILL require re-evaluating though.

TTFN

Lanrak wrote:
I didnt say this method would work with the rest if the current rules did I?

Then it really wasn't worth bringing into this thread then was it really ? We appreciate you've got your particular drum to bang, but there's a time and a place for it, and this thread isn't it.

how about this... for every point above the attacking WS, it goes up by one, and a value that is more then 3 above is just a six. if it is below by more then 3, it is 2+.

WS1 VS.
1 4+ 2 5+ 3-10 6+
WS2 Vs.
1 3+ 2 4+ 3 5+ 4-10 6+
WS3 Vs.
1-2 2+ 2 3+ 3 4+ 4 5+

You get the picture.

what about that?

you can still hit all the time, and it makes high WS a little easier to work with.

You could also use the S vs T chart, you know, as a house rule.

Mahtamori wrote:You could also use the S vs T chart, you know, as a house rule.

As long as you're ok with not being able to hit an Avatar with anything less than WS7 that should work. Or requiring WS6+ to hit Lilith.

Currently (barring any special rules or equipment like Kharn’s Gorechild) it never get’s better than a 3+ to hit, and never gets worse than a 5+. That just doesn’t make much sense to me. The table should just be changed up a bit. It’s kind of stupid that a WS 10 Bloodthirster or Avatar will still miss 1/3 of the time against a target that’s WS 1. On the reverse it’s dumb that that WS 1 target has a 1/3 chance to hit something supposedly that skilled in close combat.

I’d like to see a change where by:

If you are fighting an opponent who’s WS doubles your own, you hit on a 5+. If it more than doubles your WS then you hit on a 6+.

If you are fighting an opponent who has a lower WS, then you hit on a 3+ (as current) unless your WS more than doubles your opponent’s. Then you hit on a 2+.

Equal WS vs Equal WS remains a 4+.