Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

HQ
Farseer
ROW
Spirit Stones
Jet Bike
Doom + Fortune 170p

Warlocks (5)
all jet bike
3 Destructer
embolden + enhance
2 singing spears 281p

Elites
Fire Dragon (5)
Wave Serpant
2 Shurikan Cannons
Spirit Stones 110p

Troops
Dire Avengers (10) 120p
Wave Serpant
Spirit Stones
EML 130p

Dire Avengers (10) 120p
Wave Serpant
Spirit Stones
EML 130p

GJB (3)
Shurikan Cannon 76p
+ Warlock
embolden
Singing Spear 53p

Heavy
Fire Prism 115p

Fire Prism 115p

Total=1500p

Drop the GJB, or at least the warlock.
thats 129 points of easy target. If your going for the last minute objective grab then the lock is a huge waste of points for the one turn you will be out in plain sight.

Also I'd updrage the dires to have an Exarch and bladestorm, this should beef up your killing power quite nicely.

For the warlocks, i'd drop the spears, you need that extra CC attack.

I'll make a new list , I'll drop the warlock on the GJB in favour for an exarch with bladestorm. However i'm gonna keep 2 singing spears because the plan with the singing spears is that if I see a transport, I can take it out and then assault the squad inside.

That is a very solid mechdar list. Not much to change in it.

The DA squads should either be upgraded to include Exarch, Dual-Cats, and Bladestorm as dayve suggested, or you can downgrade them to a squad of 5 with no upgrades (other than WS). This significantly weakens their shooting power (basically they never leave the WS), but it does allow for a scoring WS for minimum points.

I'd also suggest increasing the number of Warlocks in the squad. It's an easy way to get more attacks to make up for the Singing Spears. You could probably drop the Jetbikes entirely to free up some points, but that only leaves you with 2 scoring units...

If you like the list as-is, run with it. It should be pretty effective as you wrote it.

I actually like the warlock on GJB squads. He puts you at an even number of models (can regroup after 2 losses) gives you re rolling leadership to keep from fleeing, and gives you a solid anti tank shot on a very mobile platform.
Dayve110 is correct if and only if you can actually hide your Guardian Jet bikes TOTALLY out of sight for multiple turns, which is simply unrealistic. True line of sight increased cover saves, at the cost of hiding completely through jump shoot jump. The warlock lets you take losses better, and lets the squad contribute to anti tank in a pinch, I'd say that's definitely worth it.

The council is way to small... I would drop doom and spirit stones from your farseer, the spirit stones from your tanks, and destructors on your warlocks until you can afford 2 more vanilla bike warlocks. You really need 7-8 members to get enough volume of attacks out.

other than that, I agree that it is a solid list.

I'm sort of torn on what to do here.
It seems that both akaen and Grakmar think that i should increase my seer council so I will do that.
However what are your views on wheather I should upgrade my DA with exarchs, and bladestorm and stuff?
I will make a new list soon.

riff raff wrote:I'm sort of torn on what to do here.
It seems that both akaen and Grakmar think that i should increase my seer council so I will do that.
However what are your views on wheather I should upgrade my DA with exarchs, and bladestorm and stuff?
I will make a new list soon.

Well, I'd say that an Exarch+Bladestorm is a must for any 10-man DA squad!

Of coarse, you can't do everything unless you want to start playing 2000pts

Basically, in a competitive Eldar army, you either need maxed squads to be most effective at what they do (Seer Council on Jetbike, 10DA+Bladestorm+WS) or the bare minimum squad to get the job done (Farseer with no warlocks, 5 Fire Dragons+WS, 5 DA+WS). It's the in-between squads that hurt you the most. Your 2 DA squads and your seer council fall into that awkward middle space. Upgrade 1 or 2 of them and downgrade the other. Playtest a few different builds and find what you like!

riff raff wrote:I'm sort of torn on what to do here.
It seems that both akaen and Grakmar think that i should increase my seer council so I will do that.
However what are your views on wheather I should upgrade my DA with exarchs, and bladestorm and stuff?
I will make a new list soon.

Thus is the fun of list building, you can't do everything

As Grakmar said there is a few different ways to go. If you plan to get your DA out and try to annihilate a unit then run away, you'll want Exarch with Bladestorm.

Seer councils aren't my forte since I don't really care for them, so can't give you advice there.

if you drop stones and the Dragon's Underslung cannon you trim off 40pts, but really with doing Seer Council and full DA squads your going to have a tough time fitting that all in a 1500pt bag.

Are Spirit Stones really that usefull? because if they are not then I will get 40p (including getting rid of the Shurikan cannon) which can be spent on the DAs. With the Seer Council, im going to drop doom and the spirit stones on the farseer as well as many destructers as it takes untill I get 2 more Vanilla warlocks.
Oh and by the way everyone, I've only just started Eldar and currently the only models I have are 5 warlocks, 2 farseers, and 5 jetbikes. So there are plenty of other options for me to look into,

Spirit Stones on a vehicle are "meh". They're useful but not amazing.

Spirit Stones on a Farseer are amazing! You basically double his effectiveness for relatively cheap. (He's at his best when you treat him like a pure spellcaster, just causing re-rolls for the rest of your army.) And, Doom is my favorite power. It's not great when all your weaponry is S8+, but with all those DA you've got, it will be outstanding!

Dont drop doom whatever you do. If your taking bladestorming DA's then doom will be great for them to up their damage potential.

You lot are hard to please? lol
However everybody seems to agree that I should get rid of ths spirit stones on the tanks so that I will do.
I'm thinking of lowering one DA squad to 5 and then beefing up my other DA squad and my Seer Council.
Do people think that is a good idea?

riff raff wrote:You lot are hard to please? lol

Yeah, that's true. You've got a top-tier list here, so it's just coming down to everyone's preference on how exactly to min-max it. And, if you ask 2 people on how to do that, you'll get 5 opinions.

One interesting point to consider.

If you don't mind swapping your Dire Avengers for Storm Guardians- 127 points for a squad that is arguably just as good as a 152 point equivalent Bladestorming Avenger squad, and you slash upgrades on your tanks, you can fit everything you want in at the expense of some heavy weapons.

To give you a solid idea of what I'm talking about, I would try to cram the list togeather like this

(178) Farseer- Bike, Warding, Singing Spear, Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune

(338) 7 Warlocks- Bikes, 1 embolden + spear, 1 enhance, 5 vanilla

(180) 5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent- tl shuri

(227) 10 Storm Guardians + Warlock- 2 flamers, destructor
Wave Serpent- tl shuri

(227) 10 Storm Guardians + Warlock- 2 flamers, destructor
Wave Serpent- tl shuri


(119) 3 Gu Bikes + Warlock- spear, embolden

Fire Prism

Fire Prism

Swapping your Avengers for Storm Guardians Frees up a lot of points. I couldn't fit a cannon onto the GJB, but I strongly feel the Warlock contributes more than a single not bs3 gun.

This is just an illustration of how I would try to cram everything together. good luck finding a solution you are happy with

Or both.
As akaean is so fond of pointing out Stormies bring flamer love to units in cover while bladestorming DAs shred anything that comes out.
Dropped one from the council to do it but also got your Jetbike cannon back and put stones on the Dragon Serpent for post-drop ramming, cover etc.

(178) Farseer- Bike, Warding, Singing Spear, Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune

(293) 6 Warlock s- Bikes, 1 embolden + spear, 1 enhance, 4 vanilla

(190) 5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent- tl shuricannon, stones

(227) 10 Storm Guardians + Warlock - 2 flamers, destructor
Wave Serpent- tl shuricannon

(252) 10 Dire Avengers incl Exarch - Bladestorm, 2 Catapults
Wave Serpent- tl shuricannon

(129) 3 Gu Bikes - shuricannon + Jetlock - spear, embolden

(115) Fire Prism

(115) Fire Prism

1499

Yeah, the Storm Guardian option is really strong. Better in some ways and worse in others. They can absolutely destroy a hordish squad sitting in cover, but they aren't nearly as effective against a single more powerful model. Figure out what your local metagame is like and adjust accordingly.

I think I will replace one DA squad with storm guardians.

Farseer
ROW
Spirit Stones
Jet Bike
Doom + Fortune 170p

Warlocks (6)
all jet bike
3 Destructer
embolden + enhance
2 singing spears 371p

Elites
Fire Dragon (5)
Wave Serpant
Shurikan Cannon
90p

Troops
Dire Avengers (10) 120p
exarch
2 SC
Bladestorm 32p
Wave Serpant
SC 132p

Storm Guardians(10)
2 flamers 92p
Warlock
embolden + singing spear 33p
Wave Serpant
SC 120p

GJB (3)
Shurikan Cannon 76p
+ Warlock
embolden
Singing Spear 50p

Heavy
Fire Prism 115p

Fire Prism 115p

Total=1500

I'm not sure about the point values on your list. I 'd check your codex and make sure you're adding stuff up right. right now, some of the point totals are making things hard to read. I know the points are correct on Danu and My lists, so if you don't want to use either of those, make sure you double check your numbers with the codex.

Onto some more discussion. that Farseer should cost 175 points. Also its better to have a singing spear on a farseer than a warlock. this is because Ballistic skill 5 means more than weapon skill 6. When a farseer throws a singing spear it hits on a 2+, this will hit twice as often as a warlock's 3+. Also the Farseer is an IC. this means you should be actively trying to keep him out of base to base of stuff while charging, nothing can ruin your day like instant death due to power fist and not making your invulns. Since you'll be trying to keep the farseer out of base to base with things, a witchblade doesn't make much sense. So if you want singing spears on your council (usually good for the pop and charge) always put one on the farseer before the warlocks.

While Destructor is good on Council's its a luxury that you cannot afford at 1500 points. You should drop all the council's destructors and invest in more members.

Give your storm guardian warlock a witchblade and destructor. Since he is with a squad with no other anti tank guns, the singing spear is wasted against the targets the flamers are shooting at. Its more important to have destructor in a storm guardian squad than it is to have it in a seer council. If you insist on running a singing spear, take melta guns instead of the flamers on the Guardians. I can't say they'll hit much with ballistic skill 3, but who knows?, you might bag a big tank or 2

I'm not sure I really think a seer council is doing a whole lot at that point level and size.

Akaean is right about the storm guardians... forget embolden, they're in a vehicle. You're going to want maximum effectiveness. If anyone really commits anything to them they're going to die. Their job is to triple flamer something, not dual flamer and hope to not break so they can double flamer another turn.

However, I absolutely disagree on witchblades in a SG squad. Give that bastage a singing spear. 3 flamers are STILL THERE, and it gives you a 12" lascannon for 3 points of awesome versatility. IMHO, singing spears are not a place to go looking to shave points (3).

Also, meltaguns on storm guardians is laughable... 2 meltaguns with BS3 means perhaps you hit once. Storm Guardians in 5th edition have one role in a vehicle squad. Roasting things, as I said above. Using a singing spear doesn't mean you have to re-engineer the chariot with square wheels. It just means you have some versatility if you need it.

This is old passed along knowledge, the whole 'versatility' is fail mentality only really applies when it's something like fire dragons where you'd pay 12 points to LOSE a BS5 Meltagun for an autohit heavy flamer. That's a fail tactic. However with storm guardians you lose nothing, and gain something for 3 points.

130 points for a squad of 3 flamers and a singing spear is not too much to pay. 152 point squad of DAs, dualcats, and bladestorm is sometimes less useful than my SG squad.

That list is looking much improved! I'm liking how it's coming together.

I agree with Destructor on the Storm Guardian squad. Their true strength is in burning everything to death, their other shooting and CC is sub-par. Maximize your burnage! And, no need for a SS for them. You'll want to be burning things with your 3 flamers; trying to pop a tank is a waste of the rest of the squad. For tank popping, you already have Dragons, a council, and the Fire Prisms. That should be plenty (at least by the time the Storm Guardians are on the ground and shooting you should have vehicles somewhat under control, or you've already lost).

I do disagree with akaean on the destructors in the warlock squad. I find destructor to be really worth it. But, if you're going to be keeping Fortune active on them (and you should!), adding more wounds and attacks on the squad can be really useful. So, I don't disagree strongly

For the WS for your troops, that's a Shuriken Cannon and not a Star Cannon, right?

Other than that, it's looking really good. Now, your success is going to come down to your tactics. Mech Eldar do take some skill to be effective, target priority and maneuvering your force is key to winning. So, practice practice practice!

yeah shurikan cannon