Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello everyone I have been thinking of starting Tyranids for a little bit now and I wanted to get everyones opinion on something.

I do all the "good" armies of the game IE: SM, IG, Daemonhunters, Eldar. For a while now I have thought about starting Tyranids, but I'm not sure if they fit in with my "good" race theme.

I think they do and here are my reasons why: 1. They hate Chaos as much as the rest of the races, except obviously Chaos itself, Dark Eldar, and Daemons. 2. Most of them are animals and all they want to do is feed and animals are not inherently good or bad. 3. Finally they are one of the oldest races in the Galaxy perhaps as old as the Eldar, Orkz, and Necrons, which means they are wise and would probably not do anything to destroy their food source.

All my points illustrate that they are either "good" or at least Neutral.

Tell me what you guys think!

The tyranids, though old, are not wise, though they would have a lot of instinctual knowledge or memories.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Almost forgot, the Tyranids are evil in the end because, where an animal is natural part of a life cycle, Tyranids are extremely unnatural, being out of balance with everything.

I consider the Tyranids "natural evil."

Is a deadly and infectious virus evil? Is a volcano evil if it explodes by random chance over a helpless town? Not in the classical sense, maybe. However, it is in our interest to stop such events as, although they are only natural, they also lead to suffering and enormous loss of human life.

there is no way they are even as close as being as old as the necrons (if we are including the c'tan)

Personally I think Tyranids are the most morally abhorrent faction in 40k.

Even the Imperium allows non-threatening alien life forms to survive (the Jokaero, for example) in its territory, even protecting them.

There is no such thing as "good" or "bad" in 40k. The Tyranids, as most races, only fight for there one survival.

The tyranids are really not good or evil. Neutral may be the best description. They are like an animal. They wipe out planets because they use the biomass to reproduce. Its like asking if an animal that kills a human is evil.

Secondly, I think to be good or evil you would have to have the ability to make moral decisions. I don't think they have any morality. They do what they do to increase their numbers and "race."

As I said.

As far as I can tell, the Tyranids are neutral hungry. They need to eat everything to survive and so they eat everything.

However, I think we would need to know more about the hive mind to know their actual morality. We don't know if the Hive Mind is really sentient and has motivations beyond eating or not. For all we know, the Hive Mind wants to absorb all the biomass in the galaxy to have the power to destroy some ultimate Evil in its home galaxy. Or maybe some Ultimate Good.

The Tyranids are neutral, simply because they're not being evil. They're being animals, and doing what animals do. Eat. They probably don't even recognize the life on the planets they're consuming is sentient and has a right to life (not that anyone in the grimdarkness of 40k CARES about that anyway).

Melissia: Is a bear evil if it kills a hiker? Is a swarm of bees evil if it kills a person who disrupted the hive? I don't think so. Your point would stand true, but the Tyranids aren't really sentient beings in the sense of humans, Eldar and the like. They're incredibly clever animals like an octopus or a dolphin. They're not acting out of some malicious desire to cause harm, they just have a base base interest to feed.

They arent good or evil, just hungry. Calling Nids evil is like calling a Lion that hunts and kills a gazelle evil.

Poor tyranids are just misunderstood *strokes a gaunt*

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:They arent good or evil, just hungry. Calling Nids evil is like calling a Lion that hunts and kills a gazelle evil.

Poor tyranids are just misunderstood *strokes a gaunt*

That they are. That they are. Tyranids are really quite cute. I mean...loook at 'em!!



They're adorable!!!! :3

Thats the same picture i showed my girlfriend and thats how she got into 40k and started collecting a nid army
Shes currently working on a hive tyrant which she will put a giant bow around its horn

They're like a force of nature... like a horrible fleshy tornado that blows through your town and eats your friends and family... yeah natural evil.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:Thats the same picture i showed my girlfriend and thats how she got into 40k and started collecting a nid army
Shes currently working on a hive tyrant which she will put a giant bow around its horn

That's awesome.....has she been introduced to Unyuufex yet? If not you simply must! He is a must add to an army that has a bow tie Tyrant!

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:They arent good or evil, just hungry. Calling Nids evil is like calling a Lion that hunts and kills a gazelle evil.

Poor tyranids are just misunderstood *strokes a gaunt*

It's like calling a lion that devours women, children, and men alike evil.

ChrisWWII wrote:Melissia: Is a bear evil if it kills a hiker? Is a swarm of bees evil if it kills a person who disrupted the hive? I don't think so. Your point would stand true, but the Tyranids aren't really sentient beings in the sense of humans, Eldar and the like. They're incredibly clever animals like an octopus or a dolphin. They're not acting out of some malicious desire to cause harm, they just have a base base interest to feed.

If a bear kills a hiker, it should be shot to prevent more incidents of the like. The Tyranids are not like a swarm of bees, because they attack without provocation.

And I don't give a crap if the Tyranids want to feed; the fact is, they still slaughter billions of innocent people. Do we say that the Bubonic Plague had a right to spread to and kill millions of people simply because it needed to reproduce?

They are trying to eat so feed their appetite & survive. Not good or evil, just a survival instinct.

Necroman wrote:

And I don't give a crap if the Tyranids want to feed; the fact is, they still slaughter billions of innocent people. Do we say that the Bubonic Plague had a right to spread to and kill millions of people simply because it needed to reproduce?

You've made a mistake already in trying to apply the concept of "rights" to something fundementally different from humanity.

"Rights" are a human social construct to ease our communal living. Outside of that system, they have absolutely no substance what-so-ever.



There's also a massive assumption in this thread that the Tyranids aren't sentient. They certainly aren't in the same way that we are, but there's definite intelligence there and I suspect in a relative sense the Hive Mind doesn't look at us as being sentient in the way that it is either. We look at a human organic system and we don't think that the red blood cells in our bodies are sentient, even though they are an incredibly complex system. The Hive Mind looks upon us in the same (relatively speaking) way.

Necroman wrote:
And I don't give a crap if the Tyranids want to feed; the fact is, they still slaughter billions of innocent people. Do we say that the Bubonic Plague had a right to spread to and kill millions of people simply because it needed to reproduce?

A flea borne disease can't have rights, so in a sense no. However, the plague itself was not 'evil'. Yes, it killed millions of people, but it wasn't 'evil'. Hitler was evil. Stalin was evil. The bubonic plague, even though it killed as many people was not, simply because it was not a conscious action. It was a force of nature.

Calling the 'Nids evil is the same as calling a hurricane evil.

Xyptc wrote:
There's also a massive assumption in this thread that the Tyranids aren't sentient. They certainly aren't in the same way that we are, but there's definite intelligence there and I suspect in a relative sense the Hive Mind doesn't look at us as being sentient in the way that it is either.

I doubt the 'Nids are sentient. I think they just have a....a base instinctual craftiness that they know what to do. They're like the xenomorphs in the Aliens movies. Sentient? No. But intelligent and able to pose a threat because of it? Oh god yes.

The Tyranids are neutral, as they'd happily attack any living thing in an attempt to consume its biomass. They have no preferences as to whom they eat and would eat Chaos as quickly as Imperials.

Sanguinis wrote:3. Finally they are one of the oldest races in the Galaxy perhaps as old as the Eldar, Orkz, and Necrons, which means they are wise and would probably not do anything to destroy their food source

They're an extra-galactic threat, they came here from another galaxy, possibly after wiping out more than one. The idea is, they move from galaxy to galaxy like locusts, and eat the entire galaxy, then start the move in the void to the next galaxy. Considering the amount of time this would take, just getting to our galaxy would have taken longer so long, it would have started before the War in Heaven. So yes, they're by far the oldest race in the galaxy, but they're not from this galaxy. They also definitely will eat everything, because their food source is ever present. just a long way away.

They aren't "muahahaha evil". Think of the tyranid race as one giant creatures body. This creature is hungry and our galaxy just happens to be the nearest meal for it. Meaning there's no real effort to do evil. Just acquire biomass and more prey. Until we get more solid facts on what might be driving the hive mind I would call them neutral.

. So yes, they're by far the oldest race in the galaxy, but they're not from this galaxy. They also definitely will eat everything, because their food source is ever present. just a long way away.

Apart from the C'tan, who are the oldest things around by a long way. Or the chaos gods, who are technically ageless due to the way time exists in the warp.

ChrisWWII wrote:Melissia: Is a bear evil if it kills a hiker?

Don't give me that malarkey, it doesn't apply to Tyranids. The bear is defending itself and would be fine if left well enough alone. Same with the bees. Or... well ,basically almost any animal known on Earth. It's not the same, and they aren't sentient like the Tyranids collectively are.

Tyranids will seek you out and attack you if left well enough alone. Tyranids will eat entire galaxies and there's no proof that they actually need to do so. Tyranids will leave nothing behind for later growth, effectively wasting an amount of resources so far beyond anything that we can comprehend that most people simply gloss over the fact because their minds are only marginally capable of handling such information.

Tyranids are an ecological disaster on a galactic or even universal scale. And collectively they're sentient, not animal-like in nature. Do not compare them to animals, whom without sentience tend to evolve in such a way that future generations are capable of supporting themselves.

The generic tyranids are neutral.
The hive mind is evil.

Tyranids are just hungry. Are cats good bad or neutral? WHO CARES . OM NOM NOM NOMNOMNOMNOM

Melissia wrote:Don't give me that malarkey, it doesn't apply to Tyranids. The bear is defending itself and would be fine if left well enough alone. Same with the bees. Or... well ,basically almost any animal known on Earth. It's not the same, and they aren't sentient like the Tyranids collectively are.

Thinking about it, the closest parallel I can find to 'Nids would be army ants, but you are right in that there's no creature on Earth that could possibly be a good parallel to the Tyranids.

Tyranids will seek you out and attack you if left well enough alone. Tyranids will eat entire galaxies and there's no proof that they actually need to do so. Tyranids will leave nothing behind for later growth, effectively wasting an amount of resources so far beyond anything that we can comprehend that most people simply gloss over the fact because their minds are only marginally capable of handling such information.

If I recall correctly, most 'Nid fluff potrays them as needing to eat or else they will die. The IG Codex for one lists an example where the 'Nids failure to capture a hive city resulted in a splinter fleet 'starving' to death. Additionally, the tactics employed against Hive Fleet Leviathan lend credence to the idea that the Tyranids need to eat biomass in order to live. If the biomass was not important to their survival, then they would have been able to continue on with their attacks even though they'd lost significant amounts of biomass thanks to Imperial Exterminatus. However, they seemed to weaken over time, as the tactic is portrayed as being successful, if not completely well received due to sheer number of planets sacrificed.

To the Tyranids hive mind, it's quite likely they see their use of resources as the most efficient, it's only a waste from a point of view of a human being. As was said earlier, the Tyranids probably don't view the consumption of so much as wasteful merely because they do have the ability to travel between galaxies. If they drain one galaxy or resources, it's known that you can simply go somewhere else to get more.

Tyranids are an ecological disaster on a galactic or even universal scale. And collectively they're sentient, not animal-like in nature. Do not compare them to animals, whom without sentience tend to evolve in such a way that future generations are capable of supporting themselves.

Exactly. They are a disastrous force of nature, but evil in that sense only. It's hard to determine their true level of sentience, and to me it seems like the Tyranids are not sentient in the human sense of the word. They are fiendishly clever animals, but only that. Not to mention, we have to remember that the Tyranids are extra-galactic, and while life here on Earth may tend towards a self sufficient species, there's no reason the Tyranids would. As said previously, the Tyranid narvhal is an adaptation that completely changes everything.

Why do you need to worry about consuming so much, if you can always go somewhere else?

ChrisWWII wrote:If I recall correctly, most 'Nid fluff potrays them as needing to eat or else they will die. The IG Codex for one lists an example where the 'Nids failure to capture a hive city resulted in a splinter fleet 'starving' to death. Additionally, the tactics employed against Hive Fleet Leviathan lend credence to the idea that the Tyranids need to eat biomass in order to live. If the biomass was not important to their survival, then they would have been able to continue on with their attacks even though they'd lost significant amounts of biomass thanks to Imperial Exterminatus. However, they seemed to weaken over time, as the tactic is portrayed as being successful, if not completely well received due to sheer number of planets sacrificed.

To the Tyranids hive mind, it's quite likely they see their use of resources as the most efficient, it's only a waste from a point of view of a human being. As was said earlier, the Tyranids probably don't view the consumption of so much as wasteful merely because they do have the ability to travel between galaxies. If they drain one galaxy or resources, it's known that you can simply go somewhere else to get more.

The problem with this idea is that they cross the intergalactic void. There is nothing out there. Even if all of the little Tyranids go into hibernation for the duration of that voyage, the ships themselves are alive. That voyage is going to take a long time. At sublight speed (even with the new inclusion of the Narvhal, they have nothing to actually focus on to travel faster until they get close to the galaxy) this is going to take millions of years. Those ships will die of starvation long before they reach the next galaxy. The whole 'needing to eat' thing makes a whole lot less sense than the rest of the Tyranid fluff does.

ChrisWWII wrote:

Tyranids are an ecological disaster on a galactic or even universal scale. And collectively they're sentient, not animal-like in nature. Do not compare them to animals, whom without sentience tend to evolve in such a way that future generations are capable of supporting themselves.

Exactly. They are a disastrous force of nature, but evil in that sense only. It's hard to determine their true level of sentience, and to me it seems like the Tyranids are not sentient in the human sense of the word. They are fiendishly clever animals, but only that. Not to mention, we have to remember that the Tyranids are extra-galactic, and while life here on Earth may tend towards a self sufficient species, there's no reason the Tyranids would. As said previously, the Tyranid narvhal is an adaptation that completely changes everything.

Why do you need to worry about consuming so much, if you can always go somewhere else?

Tyranids themselves are not more than animals, until you get to the synapse creatures and the hive mind. There's definitely an actual intelligence there. Keeping the lesser creatures devoid of thinking only makes them more effective, since they won't question orders given to them that appear suicidal.

Tyranids have no conception of morality. They are unfortunate for you if you happen to be in the way of the hive fleet, but they are not evil. They do not have any sort of malice aforethought, because there is no consideration as to the value of the races they destroy. In the same way, I don't have malice aforethought when I sit down to eat a bowl of lettuce and balsamic vinegar. To the tyranids, humans are lettuce.

Evil & Stupid,

Neutral Evil on the dnd scale as they just consume they do what they want, when they want as long as they can get away with it.

Stupid as they consume EVERYTHING on a planet, yes a lion will kill and eat a gazelle, but they will not eat a whole herd because they can, they will leave the majority of the herd so the is somthing to eat next week. nids just eat everything then move to the next area, consume and repeat. They don't leave anything behind.
Example the wraith in sg atlantis kiill hundred and thousands of humans, but, leave enough to repopulate for the next time they pass the planet. Evil but smart.