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Hi, I have two questions

I played a game last night and the space wolf player I was against placed the marker for the drop pod on my vehicle. As it happens it scattered off the vehicle so I didn't question it. Is this legal?

Secondly he told me that the drop pod can in no way block line of sight? Is this true, is it a specific space wolf thing or just made up?

I think you miss-clicked forums and meant for this to go into You Make Da Call.

1. It's legal as far as I can remember. Legal but slightly silly and risk making the drop pod have a mishap.

2. True line of sight. You ignore decorative elements, so it's dubious whether the doors block line of sight, but it can and will provide cover for infantry - less likely for vehicles.

this should be in YMDC. this says proposed rules, kinda where you give an idea.

1. I've never seen people putting a drop pod on a vehicle... however a pod does end up scattering the minimum distance away that it doesn't mishap.

2. pods do in fact never block LOS. if the doors can be opened [usually the case] then they should be opened.

HOWEVER: when the guy is firing through a slat part [the jutting part] he can't claim that. we use TLOS, which means that if you can't see it well enough, neither can your soldiery.

Finally, if people intend to use pods, its the only position where you should really refuse a proxy, drop pods are particular and can cause alot of problems if not well represented. [so, no coke bottles.]

Drop pods do not scatter away from "danger", they scatter less until they are out of "danger". If you stick it down on top of another unit and get a hit, you will mishap since you can't decrease the distance scattered anymore.

i don't believe that you can place the model over a unit and than deep strike, the rules for deep striking state that you place a model on the board and than role for scatter. a model may not be place or moved within 1 inch of an enemy model except during the assault phase. but if you do allow it than mahtamori is correct.

BGB pg 95: "First place one model from the unit anywhere on the board"
Ok, already he made an illegal move. He placed the pod on a unit, when (barring specifics, namely Mawloc) the rules clearly say you place it on the board. Specific enough. And mahtamori has it right, pods scatter "Less".

Captain Solon wrote:1. I've never seen people putting a drop pod on a vehicle... however a pod does end up scattering the minimum distance away that it doesn't mishap.

No, it doesn't. The pod can reduce scatter to avoid a mishap, it cannot increase it. So if he'd rolled a hit or a very small scatter then he'd have suffered a mishap.

"reduce the scatter distance by the minimum required in order to avoid the obstacle" - C:SM P69

sorry for the incorrect posting and thanks for the answers Dan

Hallowed_Da'Credo wrote:BGB pg 95: "First place one model from the unit anywhere on the board"
Ok, already he made an illegal move. He placed the pod on a unit, when (barring specifics, namely Mawloc) the rules clearly say you place it on the board. Specific enough. And mahtamori has it right, pods scatter "Less".

The Mawloc has no rule granting it an exception to any Deep Strike targetting rule. It has the Deep Strike special rule, and an exception to the usual mishap procedure.

Direct from the Tyranid FAQ- wrote:
Q: Can a Mawloc choose to Deep Strike onto a point occupied by an enemy model on purpose in order to use the Terror from the Deep special rule?
A: Yes.

No mention of any restriction or special rule overriding such a restriction, just a simple answer to the question of aiming a deep striking unit on top of another unit.

Mahtamori is correct- legal, but you'll mishap if you hit as inertial Guidance does not increase scatter to safely land, only decreases it.

It's not legal. You can't place a deep striking model onto the board within 1" of an enemy.

The Mawloc has completely different rules IIRC that are nothing like how other units Deep Strike. Doesn't he place a large blast marker on the board and scatter that, then replace it with himself after moving (and killing) enemy models out of the way?

Grakmar wrote:It's not legal. You can't place a deep striking model onto the board within 1" of an enemy.

The Mawloc has completely different rules IIRC that are nothing like how other units Deep Strike. Doesn't he place a large blast marker on the board and scatter that, then replace it with himself after moving (and killing) enemy models out of the way?

Sorry Grakmar, you are wrong, especially about the Mawloc.

It is perfectly legal to Deep Strike "onto" an enemy. It has been since 3rd edition and most likely always will be.

Is it a good idea to do so? In 99% of cases, no, it isn't.

Gwar! wrote:Sorry Grakmar, you are wrong, especially about the Mawloc.

Interesting. I just pulled out my Tyranid codex and you're right about the Mawloc deep striking (not that I was assuming you're wrong, but I was curious about his actual rules ).

I guess I always have seen it aimed at an enemy, so people tend to skip the whole "deep strike, then if on an enemy squad, don't mishap, do this instead" and just use the large blast from the start.

Grakmar wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Sorry Grakmar, you are wrong, especially about the Mawloc.

Interesting. I just pulled out my Tyranid codex and you're right about the Mawloc deep striking (not that I was assuming you're wrong, but I was curious about his actual rules ).

I guess I always have seen it aimed at an enemy, so people tend to skip the whole "deep strike, then if on an enemy squad, don't mishap, do this instead" and just use the large blast from the start.

No worries.

There are actually 2 units that kind of "prove" you can Deep Strike on units and can have for a while, and they are the Monolith and the 4th edition Spore mines, but I digress.

Just remember that aiming a Pod at an enemy won't make it move out the way if you roll a hit, it will mishap!!

I'm not trying to start an argument, but I think there's a flaw in RAW (shocking! right?).

It says to place a model "on the board". This is ignoring the 1" restriction. But, if your model is too big, or the unit already in place is too tightly packed, how can you place it on the board? You could only place it on top of a model which is on the board, but not on the board itself.

How does that work?

Grakmar wrote:I'm not trying to start an argument, but I think there's a flaw in RAW (shocking! right?).

It says to place a model "on the board". This is ignoring the 1" restriction. But, if your model is too big, or the unit already in place is too tightly packed, how can you place it on the board? You could only place it on top of a model which is on the board, but not on the board itself.

How does that work?

Wobbly Model Syndrome.

Another intentionally targeted deep striking unit: Hades Breaching Drill.

Homer

Grakmar wrote:I'm not trying to start an argument, but I think there's a flaw in RAW (shocking! right?).

It says to place a model "on the board". This is ignoring the 1" restriction. But, if your model is too big, or the unit already in place is too tightly packed, how can you place it on the board? You could only place it on top of a model which is on the board, but not on the board itself.

Deep Strike fun time.

"First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table..."
You are reading this with 'place' in the context of movement rules (Models in the Way, Impassable Terrain, etc).

Later in the Deep Strike rules, you're told "if a scatter occurs, roll 2d6 to see how many inches the model moves away from the intended position".
Do you read 'move' here in the same context as 'place'? Models which move through dangerous terrain are forced to take dangerous terrain tests, so would you make a d.t.t. for a scattering deep strike model? Impassable terrain canot be moved through; a single deep striking model will never mishap by landing on impassable terrain, as they will always be halted first if they are moving. A squad will almost always mishap if their scatter movement takes them across impassable terrain- the marker model will stop at the terrain, being unable to move over it, and the other models must then be deployed in deep strike formation around it, probably forcing a mishap.

You can place freely and scatter freely, or you can place and scatter with both limited by the movement rules and restrictions. There's no grounds to mix the two, as neither 'place' nor 'move' is a loaded keyword with any kind of restriction on it.

forkbanger: My point was in terms of trying to deep strike on top of an existing unit. You can't place a model on the board if my Chimera is already at that location. You could place your model on top of my Chimera, but not actually on the board.

Grakmar wrote:You can't place a model on the board if my Chimera is already at that location.

You can, you just cannot move there, and barring special rules it cannot resolve its deepstrike there other than as a mishap.

kirsanth wrote:

Grakmar wrote:You can't place a model on the board if my Chimera is already at that location.

You can, you just cannot move there, and barring special rules it cannot resolve its deepstrike there other than as a mishap.

But.... how? Surely the rules of 40k can't break RL physics. And, two solids can't occupy the same space, so how do you do this?

Grakmar wrote:

kirsanth wrote:

Grakmar wrote:You can't place a model on the board if my Chimera is already at that location.

You can, you just cannot move there, and barring special rules it cannot resolve its deepstrike there other than as a mishap.

But.... how? Surely the rules of 40k can't break RL physics. And, two solids can't occupy the same space, so how do you do this?

Wobbly. Model. Syndrome.

Something being legal according to the rules does not mean it's practical.

The simple answer is, however: "No, don't try to stick your unit down on top of another unit, it's stupid"

You may place your first model from a deep striking unit on another model. Placing the model on the table can be done using the WMS as Gwar! stated. This is covered by the clause in deepstriking which requires a mishap if you can't place the model due to another model. This is in fact why the Mawloc's ability works.

never seen that happen befor in my games