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This is just a general help. I have the batalion the codex and a King(Prince).
I have a few questions
A) What are tomb kings really good at?
B) What should I buy next (other than the obvious Hierophant?)
C) What should I look out for in general? against skaven? against orcs and gobbos?
D) Any general tips and tricks would be helpful. (I guess its not really a question, so sue me! )

A) Magic and Shooting
B) Screaming Catapults are great, scorpions are great, you must have a priest, Tomb Guard are great to put your prince/king in, Bone Giants are pretty solid with the shooting at large target modifier removed and thunder stomp attacks.
C) No idea there is a new thread here with some information not much on a general though: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/317601.page
D) Skeleton spearmen tend to be not so good right now, skeleton archerers are pretty solid. Queen Kahalida is actually a decent hero, which is great since so many armies have not so good "named" Heros, I play Ogres and our 2 are pretty lame, 1 is OK situationally but anyway...

A) Magic and Battles of Attrition
B) Screamers are fantastic! Bone giants only weakness is that they share the Rare 25% withe the Screamers...which once again are amazing.
C) Orcs should be an easy enough match...Skaven not so much. Use the Screamers to cause Panic and dont let those slaves tarpit you!

A) What are tomb kings really good at?

--Movement, they are one of the fastest armies in the game.
--Magic, they have the most reliable magic phase.
--Shooting. Their archers are suddenly super accurate when compared to everyone but Wood Elves. The problem? They are massively overpriced with bad range. Shooting from the screaming skull catapult with skulls of the foe, on the other hand is solid.
--Mis-direction. The ability to sacrifice cheap units (light cav) to create a better situation for your hard hitters is absolutely manditory in this game. Good thing it's still a viable tactic.
--Support Unit destruction.
The tomb kings are brilliant at claiming your opponents support units with both ICFB and Carrion. While carrion aren't nearly as good as last edition, they can still get into grips with a poorly placed war-machine on the first turn.

B) What should I buy next (other than the obvious Hierophant?)
--Ushabti seem to be a manditory unit htese days at 3x2 they are expensive but they bring the pain
--Tomb Guard are also a great unit. Last edition they gathered dust on my shelf, this edition you need a unit that can dish some pain.
--Tomb Scorpions are still great units. Not nearly as versitle as last edition, but they can still wreck your opponent
--Already covered Carrion.

Sadly, on average, you can only choose 2 of these options with MAYBE 1 extra scorpion fit in.
C) What should I look out for in general? against skaven? against orcs and gobbos?

--Ellite armies are a much easier foe to deal with than horde armies with the current iteration of the TK's list.

D) Any general tips and tricks would be helpful. (I guess its not really a question, so sue me! )

This new edition really vexes me. Mostly because simply out-maneuvering your opponent doesn't mean anything any more if you don't break your opponent on the first turn.

If your opponent has a lvl 4 mage with sick magic and a ton of magic items, or if your opponent has a BSB. Go kill them. Sacrifice a king in a chariot if you have to, just make sure they die before you. You should rarely see a net loss in points for the kill and what you gain, versus what you lose is HUGE. Also, if you can do it with a prince... even better.

I am aslo starting a tomb king army.

It seems like a good idea to get horses or cavalary to do the doubel move, they get an insane movment boost with the incatations.

Orchers also seems cool, but I have been doing some math hammer. even with the snake lady in a group of 40, that cost 400 spread out in a line of 20x2 you will only get 9 damadged per averadge even with poison (depends on thoughnes but still)

If they have a armour save like 5+ you will only kill 6 models a turn. That seems a bit weak for 400 points, or is it just me?

It is weak. The army book is very old so SC for one are expensive as heck and back then they didnt have empire troops that costed as much as bretonnian peasants or masses of skaven slaves with HPA and Doomwheels

Oh well. You can always count on the luck of the die

Yeah, Tomb Kings special Characters aren't exactly great. There's nothing wrong with relying on a khalida army in friendly play. I sure as heck wouldn't take one to a competitive environment.

The units I find myself using compulsively these days are:

Tomb King with the spear of antarhak and some sort of protection item in front of a unit of Tomb Guard. Your King heals your unit more efficiently than the banner of the undying legion, save that for Skeletons. Because you'll be bringing back 4+ sekeltons with every casting on average.

I used to mix it up and bring skeletons with spears just for giggles. The new rules that don't allow you to flip flop back and forth between spears/shields and shields/hw's is a terrible rule, and forces Tomb Kings players to rely on HW/Sh all the time. Couple that with the fact that Skeletons are overpriced anyway, leads us to need to keep our skeletons as cheap as possible.

Prince in a Chariot with the flail of skulls. I've said it once, I'll say it a million times. You have to go for your opponents throat early in order to open up your options late. The Tomb Kings need to win their battles decisively and capitalize when they do. That prince has one mission in life, get into combat and kill your opponents BSB. If there isn't one, he then moves to the most expensive wizard on the field he can go after.

If your opponent can't dispell your incantations, he can't win.

6 ushabti. They are sexy. No 2 ways about it. Ogres are the new cavalry in this edition. Oddly enough, This game is more rock>paper>scissory than last edition. Ogres>Infantry>Cavalry>Ogres. If your opponent has ogres that need killed. Most people can use cav to go do it. We can't.. but our on ushabti are > than all but trolls and dragon ogres. We always strike first, have better WS, and a high enough strength to keep it in our realm.

Bone Giant. Thunderstomp made him viable. You still have to figure out ways to deal with cannons and whatnot. That was always a problem. I find using terrain advantageously to be the only answer. The absolute sheer amout of terrain on the board means a giant should be able to threaten a very large part of the board (15ish inches) without ever taking a shot that's direct. .

^^^
That's some awesome info right there. I wish I now had kept the $200 I blew on a goblin army to start my TK army.

Don't get too down on yourself Hargus

Goblins are a sexy army if used well this edition too... They are also WAY more fun than a boring old Tomb Kings army.
I've looked into a goblin/troll/giant army more times than I'd care to admidt for tournament type shenanigans.

Yeah it was between TK, O&G and Ogres when I first got into the hobby and I went Ogres and have about 3k worth of Ogres and I got a great deal on a Goblin army. I started a thread here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/320877.page looking for some info, can you believe I got all that for $200? I don't want to hijack this thread but I love the info and am eagerly awaiting the new TK book before making purchases for my 3rd army.

Addicted to Bleach wrote:This is just a general help. I have the batalion the codex and a King(Prince).
I have a few questions
A) What are tomb kings really good at?
You pretty much HAVE to take Khalida for TK to work, but when you do they are very very good at shooting and using their magic to make their units shoot even more.

B) What should I buy next (other than the obvious Hierophant?)
If you dont already have her, Khalida. If you do, Many Many archers. 2 Units of ~32 and 1 unit of ~16 is pretty good.

C) What should I look out for in general? against skaven? against orcs and gobbos?
Both of these are Footslogging Low Armour armies. You will crush them. But take 2 Tomb Scorpions to pick off war machines, you wont regret it. Be wary of Warriors of Chaos, Dwarfs, and Brettonia. Its against those that you will need to balance Ushabti (in the flank) and Tomb Guard (in the front) simontaneously to try to divide and conquor one-two units at a time

D) Any general tips and tricks would be helpful. (I guess its not really a question, so sue me! )
You will be getting a call from my lawyer.

zeekill wrote:

Addicted to Bleach wrote:This is just a general help. I have the batalion the codex and a King(Prince).
I have a few questions
A) What are tomb kings really good at?
You pretty much HAVE to take Khalida for TK to work, but when you do they are very very good at shooting and using their magic to make their units shoot even more.

B) What should I buy next (other than the obvious Hierophant?)
If you dont already have her, Khalida. If you do, Many Many archers. 2 Units of ~32 and 1 unit of ~16 is pretty good.

C) What should I look out for in general? against skaven? against orcs and gobbos?
Both of these are Footslogging Low Armour armies. You will crush them. But take 2 Tomb Scorpions to pick off war machines, you wont regret it. Be wary of Warriors of Chaos, Dwarfs, and Brettonia. Its against those that you will need to balance Ushabti (in the flank) and Tomb Guard (in the front) simontaneously to try to divide and conquor one-two units at a time

D) Any general tips and tricks would be helpful. (I guess its not really a question, so sue me! )
You will be getting a call from my lawyer.

I honestly don't think it's possible to disagree more with any of these points.

Perhaps he was being sarcastic?

It seemed that Khalida lists were relatively fashionable in Round 1 of 'Ard Boyz- and some won, but I have no idea if any of this continued in the Semis...

kenshin620 wrote:Perhaps he was being sarcastic?

Sarcasem works really bad in this case since tyhe original poaster needs to know what he asked about to understand the sarcasem.

I would know because I am in the same boat as him. I have never played fantasy before, and tomb kings was perhaps a bad place to start but I am optemistic.

It apears to me that the screaming skull catapult seems good, and you can cheat yourself to more shots with it by using priests. Archers always hit on 5+, although I do not know how good they are for the cost. Ushabti and tomb scorpions seems like posetive units in the army book. Tomb guards are a bit expensive for what you get, but they seem like a fun units to fight other elites with and also to ressurect. (Perhaps with the banner since your royalaty and priests will be pushing archers, catapults and chariots.)

The undead can't march though. That seems a bit bad, but the incatations will help with the pounce.

am I right or am I wrong?

I think if you take more than a small number of archers you need Kalida and lots of double shooting.

Without those force multipliers, basic archers aren't going to accomplish much besides getting some wounds on targets that are otherwise hard to hit due to penalties. 9 shots for 1 wound on T4, 6 shots for 1 wound on T3, before saves in both cases.

A High Priest is critical, especially with the reroll casting dice item.

Ragnar4 wrote:

zeekill wrote:

Addicted to Bleach wrote:This is just a general help. I have the batalion the codex and a King(Prince).
I have a few questions
A) What are tomb kings really good at?
You pretty much HAVE to take Khalida for TK to work, but when you do they are very very good at shooting and using their magic to make their units shoot even more.

B) What should I buy next (other than the obvious Hierophant?)
If you dont already have her, Khalida. If you do, Many Many archers. 2 Units of ~32 and 1 unit of ~16 is pretty good.

C) What should I look out for in general? against skaven? against orcs and gobbos?
Both of these are Footslogging Low Armour armies. You will crush them. But take 2 Tomb Scorpions to pick off war machines, you wont regret it. Be wary of Warriors of Chaos, Dwarfs, and Brettonia. Its against those that you will need to balance Ushabti (in the flank) and Tomb Guard (in the front) simontaneously to try to divide and conquor one-two units at a time

D) Any general tips and tricks would be helpful. (I guess its not really a question, so sue me! )
You will be getting a call from my lawyer.

I honestly don't think it's possible to disagree more with any of these points.

I don't understand how. TK have:

Poor ability to make it across the board
Poor offencive close combat ability, sans a TK with DoE, and even then its iffy. And don't begin to say how good chariots are, beause they're not. They suck. S4 T4 with a 5+ save will see them hit, I will make my steadfast roll, then hit you in the flank and destroy you.
Poor initiative.

What do they have thats good?
Archers always hitting on a 5+ no matter what.
Ability to take poison on those archers
Screaming Skull Catapults
The banner of "you can't march this turn"
Large amounts of magic to allow archers to fire multiple times.
Casket of Souls - in addition to the magic already there.

Therefore, i dont see why you would take anything but Khalida. Without massive shooting the TK don't really stand a chance.

The fact that you missed that we have

1) fastest army in the game, can strike from nearly anywhere. Poor ability to make it across the board blah!. I have 3 units that can go 30 inches in one turn, and another that can go 32. I DEFY you to find a faster unit.
2) Ushabti are the top 3 or 4 overall ogre base type unit,
3) Tomb Swarms and Tomb Scorpions are still lights out for anti-war machines and a large portion of anti-shooting
4) that you missed a chariots offensive capabilities because you're so fixated on how the happen to be fragile
5) that tomb kings magic is the most reliable magic in the game

it really makes me question how much time you spend mucking around with the Kings.

You're only thinking one dimensionally.

Your thoughts and feelings on Brettonia (easy meat for kings) Chaos (a little bit tougher but still manageable) Dwarfs ( a freaking joke if they gunline, a little bit better if they actually try for combat) and Skaven (an absolute nightmare for any Khemri general to deal with) are dead wrong, because all you see are statistics. You don't consider army dynamic of Horde vs Elite when facing Khemri.

Your reason that Skaven and greenskins suck is because they are footslogging low armor armies? they have 4 times as many troops as you!!! you can't out maneuver them. Sure you're putting out 80 shots a turn along with 3 screaming skull catapult shots a turn. those 80 shots are knocking off 15 goblins or 13 orcs a turn before saves. but he's got another 200 where they came from.. and the moment he's in combat.. you're stuck!

Sure the catapults are going to do some damage. But you're mis-firing once every 2 turns, and he's not exactly just letting you have the catapults without a fight.

Seriously.. do you even *play* Khemri? Or do you just know someone that knows someone that tried them once?

All that having been said: What don't the Kings have? Why are they in serious need of a re-work?

Because they are too fragile and expensive. They relied on an auto-flee mechanic that doesn't exist in the game any more, and the new application of the "fear" rule simply doesn't make up for their points cost. They have to play this super-scavengar role, where they can't go toe to toe with anybody (except maybe elves) they gang up on one unit with like 4 of their own, beat it into the ground, and then dissappear into the sands. If those types of opportunities don't exist, they can't brute-force their opponents without luck. Luckily most opponents don't understand this mechanic.

So after all that. chariots are freaking awesome. Because if I ever, EVER get the lead by killing your war-machines with my scorpions and tomb swarms, and by picking off a few of your stragglers.. and probably sacrificing a king or a prince in the name of destroying your magic phase....

...I'm going to use their superior moviement and their LIGHT CAVALRY rules to run from you for the next 4 tunrns. Using my magic, and superior mobility to keep you at arms length during the next --fastest--3 or 4 turns of your life. Chariots could have t1 1 wound and a special rule called "if you sneeze on them they fall apart" and it won't matter if you can't shoot them, can't magic them, and can't get to combat with them.

Ragnar4 wrote:The fact that you missed that we have

1) fastest army in the game, can strike from nearly anywhere. Poor ability to make it across the board blah!. I have 3 units that can go 30 inches in one turn, and another that can go 32. I DEFY you to find a faster unit.
How exactly? You're not allowed to march, so other than carrion your fastest unit has a 7" move and then a 7" magic move. You do know that you can't march right?
2) Ushabti are the top 3 or 4 overall ogre base type unit,
Sure thing. Because the deffinately come with a price tag (points, not $, though $ is also an issue ) of one
3) Tomb Swarms and Tomb Scorpions are still lights out for anti-war machines and a large portion of anti-shooting
So now you're arguing with me by agreeing with me?
4) that you missed a chariots offensive capabilities because you're so fixated on how the happen to be fragile
No, the fragility is just the main component of why they are bad. I would never say that 4D3+4 S4 and then 12 S3 hits on charge is very much, considering most things will just make a steadfast roll and then absolutely crush you in the following turn.
5) that tomb kings magic is the most reliable magic in the game
Yet again agreeing with me does not make a good argument...

it really makes me question how much time you spend mucking around with the Kings.

You're only thinking one dimensionally.

Your thoughts and feelings on Brettonia (easy meat for kings) Chaos (a little bit tougher but still manageable) Dwarfs ( a freaking joke if they gunline, a little bit better if they actually try for combat) and Skaven (an absolute nightmare for any Khemri general to deal with) are dead wrong, because all you see are statistics. You don't consider army dynamic of Horde vs Elite when facing Khemri.
Yes I do. And you have it pretty much entirely backwards. If you play combat TK, Bretts will be a close matchup. Chaos will slaughter your combat units quite quickly. Dwarfs are a joke? If they take a gunline a TK army will be half gone by turn 3, and they will cancel out your magic almost entirely. And lastly when talking about skaven I was talking about a KHEMRI GUNLINE ARMY. Yes I can see that against your aveage combat units skaven would be a nightmare.

Your reason that Skaven and greenskins suck is because they are footslogging low armor armies? they have 4 times as many troops as you!!! you can't out maneuver them. Sure you're putting out 80 shots a turn along with 3 screaming skull catapult shots a turn. those 80 shots are knocking off 15 goblins or 13 orcs a turn before saves. but he's got another 200 where they came from.. and the moment he's in combat.. you're stuck!
I'm sorry did I say they suck? No. I didnt. I said they suck against a missile army that ignores modifiers. Orcs suffer from animosity, and have low initiative like you so will take more damage from your Tomb Guard, after being wittled down to 15 man units by the skeletons. And Skaven are not that much better than skeletons in combat to begin with, and all their scaryest stuff dies SO easily to poison. Keep in mind you get 2-3 shots with catapults and ~60 extra shots from magic and/or the casket.

Sure the catapults are going to do some damage. But you're mis-firing once every 2 turns, and he's not exactly just letting you have the catapults without a fight.
What fight? Are you talking about scouts? Those little things that will die first turn because they have no armor and you ignore modifiers when shooting? Or the cannons that will be ignoring your units and not trying for a missed Look out Sir! and might not even kill the catapults?

Seriously.. do you even *play* Khemri? Or do you just know someone that knows someone that tried them once?
Me personally, no. I have however watched in detail many games involving TK players both friendly and at local tourneys, and I have played against them on several occations. Just because you play TK does'nt make you a godly authority on them.

All that having been said: What don't the Kings have? Why are they in serious need of a re-work?

Because they are too fragile and expensive. They relied on an auto-flee mechanic that doesn't exist in the game any more, and the new application of the "fear" rule simply doesn't make up for their points cost. They have to play this super-scavengar role, where they can't go toe to toe with anybody (except maybe elves) they gang up on one unit with like 4 of their own, beat it into the ground, and then dissappear into the sands. If those types of opportunities don't exist, they can't brute-force their opponents without luck. Luckily most opponents don't understand this mechanic.
This is of course assuming that an opponent would for whatever reason purposely split his army up and allow you to pick off his units one at a time.

So after all that. chariots are freaking awesome. Because if I ever, EVER get the lead by killing your war-machines with my scorpions and tomb swarms, and by picking off a few of your stragglers.. and probably sacrificing a king or a prince in the name of destroying your magic phase....
Well firstly by that time my cannons would already have punched a whole in your line and my mortars and rocket batteries would have made your units nearly nonexistant. Secondly, I dont understand how you expect to kill my magic phase. I assume you mean you will charge my unit and pick out my character, however in that case I just challenge with my champion, take about 2 wounds, and then win by 1 though 3 ranks/banner against your charge/2wounds. The next turn I use lore of shadow to swap my wizard for my BSB and you can pound on his 2+ Save and 4+ Ward all game if you want. Other armies will just smash you before you get to attack considering you only have I3.


...I'm going to use their superior moviement and their LIGHT CAVALRY rules to run from you for the next 4 tunrns. Using my magic, and superior mobility to keep you at arms length during the next --fastest--3 or 4 turns of your life. Chariots could have t1 1 wound and a special rule called "if you sneeze on them they fall apart" and it won't matter if you can't shoot them, can't magic them, and can't get to combat with them.

Honestly, I agree with you when you say that TK need an update. All I'm trying to say is that I prefer the Shooty TK army build rather than the CC one. Each build has its flaws.

Ragnar4 wrote:A) What are tomb kings really good at?

--Movement, they are one of the fastest armies in the game. Surely, you jest...they can't march, and extra movement in the magic phase is hardly guaranteed. The best thing you can say about them in terms of movement is that they have a really nice charge threat range...since, if they do get extra movement in the movement phase, they basically get +4" to their charge...which isn't fantastic, but it's not chopped liver, either.
--Magic, they have the most reliable magic phase. True. Quantity has a quality all its own.
--Shooting. Their archers are suddenly super accurate when compared to everyone but Wood Elves. The problem? They are massively overpriced with bad range. Actually, everything except SSCs, TPs, and scorpions is overpriced...why pick on the bowmen? As for the range...since they shoot at their basic BS at long range while moving, they have really good range... Shooting from the screaming skull catapult with skulls of the foe, on the other hand is solid. True
--Mis-direction. The ability to sacrifice cheap units (light cav) to create a better situation for your hard hitters is absolutely manditory in this game. Good thing it's still a viable tactic. Not really...redirecting charges only works if your opponent takes the bait. If he's smart, he has a counter to the judas goat, and just goes right ahead with his original plan.
--Support Unit destruction. The tomb kings are brilliant at claiming your opponents support units with both ICFB and Carrion. While carrion aren't nearly as good as last edition, they can still get into grips with a poorly placed war-machine on the first turn. Again...relying on the enemy to make a mistake to make your units seem useful? Without the ability to march, carrion are worse than useless. ICFB, on the other hand, is awesome...especially since, unlike other armies, our deepstrikers get to charge on arrival!


B) What should I buy next (other than the obvious Hierophant?)
--Ushabti seem to be a manditory unit htese days at 3x2 they are expensive but they bring the pain No. Not mandatory...They compete for points with TG, which wreck face all over the place. Ushabti are better than in the last edition, but FAR from mandatory...make that, mandatory to collect, because the models are awesome, but not mandatory to play with.
--Tomb Guard are also a great unit. Last edition they gathered dust on my shelf, this edition you need a unit that can dish some pain. They are awesome, especially with step up. Last edition, they were the only decent melee option, but now ranked bowmen can do the job in a pinch, so TG are not as mandatory as they used to be, in spite of being more effective than ever before.

C) What should I look out for in general? against skaven? against orcs and gobbos?

--Ellite armies are a much easier foe to deal with than horde armies with the current iteration of the TK's list. True. Killing blow is wasted against anything in those armies except stuff like black orks. Ditto the awesomeness of a TK with great weapon. For rats and greenskins, plan to kill off several movement trays worth of enemy every turn if you want to survive. That means two catapults and a ton of archers. Two blocks of thirty sounds like a good start. That should give you 100 bow shots and 4 cat shots a turn if the archers are lined up 10x3. Also, you want to take as many bound spells as possible to gain an overwhelming magic phase...so you can be sure to get four units to shoot twice a turn...and magic missiles work pretty well against these particular enemies if everything has already shot in the magic phase and you don't have any healing to do.

Seriously.. do you even *play* Khemri? Or do you just know someone that knows someone that tried them once?

Well...that's rude. Anyone who disagrees with you can't possibly know anything about TK?

I have 3 units that can go 30 inches in one turn, and another that can go 32.

Oh? Three chariot/horse squadrons? So you have some fleet harrasing units...when there's a hero in range to give them magic movement. As long as TK hammer and anvil units can't march, I remain unimpressed. I do like that our infantry can move in the movement phase, then charge in the magic phase, effectively doubling their M characteristic on turns in which they charge...and I would love that our infantry almost always moves at least basic movement on a failed charge, if the reason for that little tidbit wasn't our horrible move stat! But it does raise an interesting point. There's no downside to attempting to charge in the movement phase, since a failure means you get to try again in the magic phase...from several inches closer! Anyway, the bottom line is that our charge threat range is awesome, but our ability to relocate units around the board when not charging an enemy is...pitiful.

zeekill wrote:

Ragnar4 wrote:The fact that you missed that we have

1) fastest army in the game, can strike from nearly anywhere. Poor ability to make it across the board blah!. I have 3 units that can go 30 inches in one turn, and another that can go 32. I DEFY you to find a faster unit.
How exactly? You're not allowed to march, so other than carrion your fastest unit has a 7" move and then a 7" magic move. You do know that you can't march right?
.

Carrion move 10 inches due to flying
Heavy cav move 8
light cav move 8 and have fast cav movement
Chariots move 8 and have fast cav movement
Tomb Scorpions are move 7.

The way you move 32 inches in one turn relies on a bit of luck, I'll admidt: But you move 10 inches, then you encant a charge 10+3d6 pick the 2 highest, which is... 32 total inches. No marching necessary. So yes, I did know that Khemri can't march.

Ragnar4 wrote:

zeekill wrote:

Ragnar4 wrote:The fact that you missed that we have

1) fastest army in the game, can strike from nearly anywhere. Poor ability to make it across the board blah!. I have 3 units that can go 30 inches in one turn, and another that can go 32. I DEFY you to find a faster unit.
How exactly? You're not allowed to march, so other than carrion your fastest unit has a 7" move and then a 7" magic move. You do know that you can't march right?
.

Carrion move 10 inches due to flying
Heavy cav move 8
light cav move 8 and have fast cav movement
Chariots move 8 and have fast cav movement
Tomb Scorpions are move 7.

The way you move 32 inches in one turn relies on a bit of luck, I'll admidt: But you move 10 inches, then you encant a charge 10+3d6 pick the 2 highest, which is... 32 total inches. No marching necessary. So yes, I did know that Khemri can't march.

~shrug~ Carrion being able to move 32" 1/18 of the time is a joke compared to the 40" they used to move 100% of the time. Especially when you'd be a fool to plan for them to be able to move more than about 28". First turn alpha strikes against enemy warmachines are a thing of the past, eliminating one of the reasons to take carrion, and marchblocking is dead as a doornail, eliminating any remaining usefulness. Of the other "fast" units you mentioned, both flavors of skeletal horse are horrible, not even worth discussing except for their ability to provide a "look out, sir!" to a mounted priest. Chariots got the hell beaten out of them with the nerf bat, but I'm still a huge fan of them because they outclass all forms of enemy fast cav, and through trickeration and filthy application of the rules can slide right past the enemy's front line units on turn one without declaring a charge and without ending up in LOS for the enemy to charge. Scorpions remain my heroes, but their speedy movement really only impacts their charge radius when they arrive via ICFB, they are a niche unit that doesn't really qualify the army book as "fast". For me to agree that TK were "fast," either our cav would have to be less of a joke or we'd have to have infantry that can march (TG moving 8" in the movement phase, then charging 10" in the magic phase...that's fast!)