Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can I use GOI more than once during my turn with say, an epistolary? To teleport twice?

Not really, GoI is used at the start of the movement phase.
If you've used a power and teleported you're not in the beginning of the movement phase anymore, eh?

How do you define when the beginning of the movement phase ends?

When you've done something?

I dont have my codex on hand, so I cant check the wording, but IIRC it does say "at the beginning of the movement phase... the unit is replaced anywhere within 24" using the deep strike rules."

So doing anything at all ends it? and who does it end the beginning of the movement phase for? The unit that did something? Or the whole army?

Let's put it this way...
To use the power you have to to do it in the beginning of the movement phase, that's what it says in the codex.
If you then do something else, you're no longer in the beginning of the movement phase.
I.e: The first thing you have to do in the movement phase is to cast the power, if you want to use it.

Oscarius wrote:Let's put it this way...
To use the power you have to to do it in the beginning of the movement phase, that's what it says in the codex.
If you then do something else, you're no longer in the beginning of the movement phase.
I.e: The first thing you have to do in the movement phase is to cast the power, if you want to use it.

So by your thinking, if I have two Librarians with GoI : The first uses the power to move a unit, and now the second can't because it's not the start of the movement phase by virtue of the action of the previous Librarian?

Yup, sort of. Wonderful RaW eeh?

Oscarius wrote:Yup, sort of. Wonderful RaW eeh?

Which is why RAW without RAI or Common Sense is like taking a hike with just one boot on.

Basic Rulebook @ Pg.2 wrote:
THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE!
Warhammer 40,000 is an involved game, with many different armies, weapons, and possibilities. In a game of this size and complexity there are bound to be occasions where a particular situation lies outside these rules, often when unusual models interact.
...
All these instances can lead to arguments, so it is important to remember that the rules are just a framework to create an enjoyable game. Winning at any costis less important than making sure both players - no just the victor - have a good time.
...

And not reading the tenets of this section are what now?

GoI doesn't say at the beginning of the movement phase (as in the player's turn) it says at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase.
Now I know that each model doesn't have it's own Movement phase (by RAW) because the rules do not specifically say they do, but a comparable ability, the Necron Veil of Darkness says the Lord uses it "...at the start of its Movement phase...".
So the rules seem to back up that in the player's movement phase, when you move each unit or model, that is a movement 'phase' for each one. This is because you pick a model, move it, and then pick another unit. You cannot go back to a unit that has completed its move and move it further.
So in the case of GoI, if you have 2 Librarians (each with GoI), then each could use GoI at the start of each one's movement phase.
In the case of having an Epostolary, even though it can use 2 powers, it could only use GoI once because after it has completed the teleport, it has completed its move and therefore is no longer at the start of its Movement phase.
Similar to not being able to use 2 psychic shooting attacks in the same turn.

dswanick wrote:

Oscarius wrote:Let's put it this way...
To use the power you have to to do it in the beginning of the movement phase, that's what it says in the codex.
If you then do something else, you're no longer in the beginning of the movement phase.
I.e: The first thing you have to do in the movement phase is to cast the power, if you want to use it.

So by your thinking, if I have two Librarians with GoI : The first uses the power to move a unit, and now the second can't because it's not the start of the movement phase by virtue of the action of the previous Librarian?

No, because here's the sequence of events: 1) Your movement phase begins 2) All abilities which have "At the beginning of the movement phase" trigger 3) They are each put on the stack 4) Each fully resolves, in reverse order of how they were put on the stack

Wait... That's not right... Hmmm... I must be thinking of a game system where the rules are clearly outlined and are fixed whenever there's a hole in them...

Seriously though, there's no good definition of "beginning" in 40k. Is it the very first thing that happens? Is it the first third or so of your movement phase, which would be before the "middle"? How would you even quantify how far into the movement phase you are?

Most people I know typically play it as you perform each and every ability that says "beginning" before moving your first unit.

time wizard wrote:GoI doesn't say at the beginning of the movement phase (as in the player's turn) it says at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase.
Now I know that each model doesn't have it's own Movement phase (by RAW) because the rules do not specifically say they do, but a comparable ability, the Necron Veil of Darkness says the Lord uses it "...at the start of its Movement phase...".
So the rules seem to back up that in the player's movement phase, when you move each unit or model, that is a movement 'phase' for each one. This is because you pick a model, move it, and then pick another unit. You cannot go back to a unit that has completed its move and move it further.
So in the case of GoI, if you have 2 Librarians (each with GoI), then each could use GoI at the start of each one's movement phase.
In the case of having an Epostolary, even though it can use 2 powers, it could only use GoI once because after it has completed the teleport, it has completed its move and therefore is no longer at the start of its Movement phase.
Similar to not being able to use 2 psychic shooting attacks in the same turn.

Its clearly stated when you cant use 2 psychic powers per turn regarding psychic shooting. It says nothing about not being allowed to use GOI twice.

You can cast any other start of the movement phase powers more than once, such as wings of sangiunius, although it wont often do much if youve already cast it successfully. Otherwise if a psyker had 2 different powers that are cast "at the start of the movement phase", then he could only ever cast 1 of them.

"he can use up to two psychic powers each turn" is not "he can use the same power twice".

Sounds like a no to me.

Grakmar wrote:
No, because here's the sequence of events: 1) Your movement phase begins 2) All abilities which have "At the beginning of the movement phase" trigger 3) They are each put on the stack 4) Each fully resolves, in reverse order of how they were put on the stack

Wait... That's not right... Hmmm... I must be thinking of a game system where the rules are clearly outlined and are fixed whenever there's a hole in them...

lol I remember playing MtG, and I remember the arguments over the half dozen variations of Regeneration and the problems with CoP:White. I wouldn't go touting MtG as a paragon of tight, bulletproof rules. Netrunner, yes...MtG, no.

As stated, you must use it at the start of the Librarians Movement phase (that is, when you pick him to move).

Once he has used GoI once, it is no longer the start of his movement phase, so he cannot use it a 2nd time.