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This thread has nothing to do with army lists or beardy players.

What I want to know is should you intervene when your opponent makes a glaring mistake based on their incorrect assumptions?

Last night I played a strong Nid player with my space wolves. The scenario included 4 objectives and maximum 6 turns. I was getting hurt, bad. So at the top of the 6th turn I made the desperate moves for the win. I turboboosted a speeder onto one of the opponent's claimed objectives to contest and I moved a line of wolf guard termis plus Logan to capture both my objectives. Important thing to note is that Logan makes wolf guard troops. So bottom of the last turn the Nid opposition destroys the speeder [all tied up, 2-2!] and then, instead of contesting one of my objectives with a Fly'Rant he assaults a squad of long fangs more than 6 inches behind the objectives! What the hell was he thinking?! Well I can only assume he didn't realize the WG were scoring and thought he had already won. Although there is no excuse for failing to contest one of those two objectives he obviously made a huge mistake based off of an incorrect assumption.

Should I have spoken up? Or can I take the tie with pride?

Did you ask him afterwards if he knew they were scoring?

At a tournament, tough crap. So long as you tell them at the beginning what your special characters and rules do, it's his job to remember.

At a friendly, I'd remind him. I've done similar before.

He definitely didn't know about them being troops but at the same time he was put in the same position i was and didn't speak up. Here's how: Prior to the last player turn, when i moved the WG into place to capture two objectives, my opponent giddily said he knew something I didn't. I looked around my side of the board and couldn't figure out what he was talking about and since he was not freeing up the info I wasn't about to ask. So right there he could have told me that the WG weren't scoring in which case I would have corrected him. Instead he tried to capitalize on my seeming lack of knowledge. It just so happens he was wrong in his assumption.

Well, since he had that 'I know something you don't know" attitude, feth him.

hahaha good. A MIGHTY TIE IT WAS THEN!

One of my. . .bad habits is giving my opponents good advice.

I usually try to point out things of that nature throughout the game.

For example, I regularly remind my opponents of things like "Don't forget that Tervigon is a scoring Troops choice" and "Keep your warboos away from the Swarmlord, use the boys instead" are always mentioned to new oppoenents.

Especially if they have not faced the Swarmlord or tervigons.

Heck, I remind people to shoot s8+ weapons at the Doom of Malan'tai before shooting it with anything else.

End of a game ... well tough. Start of a game ... well ok may be give them a little help its no fun slaughting some one (ok it is but they tend not to play you again).

Well if he is sneakin' around keeping secrets, then that serves him right. Unless he is the new guy he shouldn't need any helpful hints, especially with that attitude.

If your opponent wants to engage in a little post-game analysis that's fine. Heck if somebody asks me for tips on how to beat me in a friendly game, I'll answer honestly. No need to throw unsolicited advice in somebody's face, whatever the case though.

Seeing as how you don't know what he was getting all giggly about, no point in assuming anything about that either.

I would say that you should point out that kind of schoolboy error during a friendly game.

We are supposed to help and protect the weak, not prey on them.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

It makes everyone's lives better.

Tournaments: Clearly you don't say anything. Unless you're already in the bottom with no hope of winning, then it's just a casual game

Casual: It's a tough balance with some players. I like to discuss units and strategy while a game is going on and I enjoy it when my opponents do the same! But, you can sometimes sound condescending in pointing something out, unintentionally of course. So, if your opponent is friendly and has been chatty all game, point it out. If they're one of those WAAC players that can't take constructive criticism and have a tantrum when things don't go there way, it, they don't get a warning. Expect them to blow a gasket when you point this out to them after a game, but that's ok, because the game is already over and you can walk away.

Personally I would point at them and laugh.

Let me think what I would do. Yeah maybe you should have mentioned it. Looks like a clear-cut "win by not-knowing Codex rules." Back when I used to be a real terror with my Eldar I always made sure my opponents knew what all the different units did because there is no point in stomping all over your opponent if the only reason why is because he had no idea what your army's units could do.

So I would say: making mistakes in the game is one thing. Because honestly mistakes happen it's not Dawn of War. But as far as maybe he never faced Space Wolves/ doesn't spend all his time trolling forum boards is concerned I would have (personally) pointed it out to him.

Now if we are at someone's place and what you explained had happened in a different game all I would have done is gone to get another beer.

Grakmar wrote:Tournaments: Clearly you don't say anything.

I do it in tourneys too.

Yeah honestly I take that "win by not-knowing Codex rules" pretty seriously. I mean I am as competitive if not IMPOSSIBLY MORE SO than anyone/ everyone but honestly if we are discussing "ethics" you should try and educate/ be a good sport about the rules for your army, especially considering a special character was involved because honestly they just may not know.

Unless they are a jerk of course.

So basically the REAL question to ask is whether or not your friend was a jerk.

It seems my opponent is getting a lot of sympathy. This guy just creamed the dude playing next to me and was creaming me. He brought his copy of 'ard boys scenarios and was trying to rule-lawyer me all game. This guy was a seasoned vet that played carelessly at the end.

The only 'stomping' that went on were his chubby feet on the FLGS floor when I told him we tied.

Considered from an ethical viewpoint, would telling him or not telling him have had an ameliorating effect on his future behaviour?

If you said, "I would have told you about xxx except you are such a jerk," would it help him to stop being a jerk?

What about if you just play and point out the errors? What kind of effect would that have?

You mean if he is a jerk?

Deuce11 wrote:It seems my opponent is getting a lot of sympathy.

I try to treat all of my opponents that way regardless. It has little to do with sympathy in my case.

Part of it is getting the satisfaction of knowing that I won regardless of forgotten rules or silly slip-ups.
Part of it is simply being polite even to a total goon.

To be honest, I have a hard time knowing what I would do in your position. I'd like to think I'd be the bigger guy and warn him, but on the other hand, I probably wouldn't at the time. What I know I would have done was tell him what exactly is a troop choice and what isn't at the start of the game, and then happily tell him throughout the game were he to ever ask again. If I don't know an army, that's what I do: Ask questions. "Long Fangs are troop choices, right?"

His fault if he's not asking, I say.

Kilkrazy wrote:Considered from an ethical viewpoint, would telling him or not telling him have had an ameliorating effect on his future behaviour?

If you said, "I would have told you about xxx except you are such a jerk," would it help him to stop being a jerk?

What about if you just play and point out the errors? What kind of effect would that have?

I am pretty non-confrontational. ESPECIALLY when dealing with little plastic men. I would rather just never play the guy again then tell him he is a jerk.

Had he been aware that the WG were scoring and contested one objective, he would have won. The weird thing is he should have just contested it anyway instead of attacking a bunch of LFs. We tied due more in part to his arrogance then anything else.

The rules are set at the start of the game. He messes up and it ends as a tie, or even a loss for him. Bargain!

The thing is, there are no ethics in this really, not unless you're using real wolf fur on your models.

When you assault his models and he pipes up saying "Ooh I wouldn't do that, you're better off assaulting me with that squad instead!" what would you do? It would get annoying as hell after a while.

Correcting misunderstanding with rules is one thing, giving gaming advice during play is another thing entirely. Afterwards I would probably say something and do a bit of a post war anaylsis so that he understands what went wrong but not during.

This is what you do, see and I am not trying to get off-topic.

Say: ADEPTICON INVITATIONAL CHALLENGING CHAMPIONSHIP GLADIATOR INVITATIONAL TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS... OF THE DECADE

Using a NEW ruleset of 40k that will not be released until the next year.

Final round.

Me, or dude or whoever has Logan and his Wolfguard as Troops. Whatever dude said happened, basically the opponent threw the game.

If he is a cool person you point out to him, look dude wolfguard are Troop with Logan eh. You might want to rethink that one. Now admitedly maybe he doesn't _WANT_ to assault Wolf Guard but that is another story.

If he is someone known for being as is described a "jerk" you think to yourself, "do I _really_ feel like speaking?" The game is OVER. I _WIN_. The beeer is _RIGHT THERE_. With the _COOL PEOPLE_. If I speak, I have less beeer, more playing which I am probably tired of, less cool people and this jerk-guy.

If there are any 'cool people' AROUND WHO NOES maybe you say something. You think to yourself, there are some cool people here you know playing the game. Wolf Guard are pretty tough anyway. Get a story out of it, and I mean it is the cool person thing to do.

Maybe you say something.

But honestly otherwise if the guy wants you say something when he is by all accounts _TOO SCARED_ to attack your Wolf Guard with all the shiny new plastic weapons and doo-dads then honestly maybe he shouldn't act like such a jerk in the first place.

Hmm, a tricky one.
I guess if he was being a jerk, then it's not a bad thing that you took him down a peg or two. I mean, someone's got to show him he doesn't know everything, right?
On the other hand, if it's a genuine mistake and he's not just being arrogant, then really you should tell him, if only for sportsmanship's sake.