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At my local game store, I seem to be getting the worst of the deffrollas on my three GW battlewagons. The deffrollas are treated as hull, with the accompanying widening of the side-armor arc. However, although declare hull, I'm disallowed from measuring the shooting of my passengers from it, nor allowed to measure two inches from it for open-top assaults. Instead, I'm required to measure from the non-deffrolla hull, under the fluffy-logic, "Who the hell would stand on that thing and shoot?", etc. My foes can of course measure shooting-to-hit me up to the deffrolla!

I know that the issue whether the deffrolla is hull has been hashed here. However, due to the poor search functions of dakkadakka, I can't figure whether this question has been asked. My apologies for possible redundancy.

So what are your thoughts? Does this seem appropriate. I understand there's troubles as to the rules, and those problems can be addressed with house rules....

generally speaking, if your opponents are allowed to measure to it, for thier purposes, you are allowed to measure from it for your own. i have always worked it out with my opponent before the game starts, what works for them works for me.

we either use it to measure from, or we dont

I think you mean the vehicle's "hull" instead of "haul"...

So you are saying that your opponents want to have their cake and eat it too? Nice guys... I suggest you tell em to pack sand and be consistent. What they measure to is what you get to measure from.

Oo, good catch. Time for the after-the-fact edit!

Now you're showing "hall" the word you want is "hull"

Consistency is needed.

If it is hull for them, it is hull for you.

These situation are tricky. The best you can do is point out in the rulebook measuring to a vehicle and point out where it talks about going to the hull. Then point out in the open topped and shooting from a vehicle rules where it says to measure from the hull.

If they won't budge, there's only three things you can do:

1) Accept that they're being jerks and play by their "rules"
2) Stop taking Deffrollas entirely
3) Just stop playing with them

Leo_the_Rat wrote:Now you're showing "hall" the word you want is "hull"

Damnit!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grakmar wrote:These situation are tricky. The best you can do is point out in the rulebook measuring to a vehicle and point out where it talks about going to the hull. Then point out in the open topped and shooting from a vehicle rules where it says to measure from the hull.

If they won't budge, there's only three things you can do:

1) Accept that they're being jerks and play by their "rules"
2) Stop taking Deffrollas entirely
3) Just stop playing with them

Thanks for that.

I'm going to try to compile these house rules at my game store. I'm new to the scene, don't want to upset the triumvirate there, but some available rulings would be nice.

If I may be a rule nazi (apologies already):

Page 56 of my AOBR rulebook states:
"...for distances involving a vehicle, measure to or from their hull (ignore gun barrels, dozer blades, antennas, banners and other decorative elements). There is however a notable exception, a vehicle's weaponry. When firing a vehicle's weapons, ranges are measured, from the muzzle of the firing weapon..."

Page 70 states:
"...all passengers in an open-topped vehicle may fire, measuring range and line of sight from the hull of the vehicle...Models can embark or disembark within 2" of any point of the [open topped] vehicle."

If your friends read their rulebooks, clearly they are at fault here. They must measure distances to the actual hull of your trukk not just the roller (I.E. Wargear(see quote #1)). Additionally, if you were to fire any of the vehicles weapons, you need to measure from the weapon itself, not the hull of the trukk. Moreover, when your boys disembark they may assault 2" from the deffrolla as the rules do not state "hull" but rather any part of the vehicle.
You have two options, politely point out the page numbers, correct them and give them a handshake like a sporting gentleman. Or tell them to STFU and tell them they are wrong (and probably lose your friends). Its your call. Hope this helps.

I'd be inclined to agree with PraetorDave that the Deffrolla is a 'decorative element' and is thus ignored for range.

If they insist that it's part of the hull (which it isn't), then they MUST be consistent and use it as hull for all purposes.

Agreed, they need to play it one way or the other!

The title still shows "haul" instead of "hull" for me btw... not to beat a dead horse

It is a Decorative element. If it's hull, then my 9" long Dozer blades are hull too.

You can do what DoP does, is model them facing Up (since you don't HAVE to model them forwards) and save on the dramaz.

Gwar! wrote:It is a Decorative element. If it's hull, then my 9" long Dozer blades are hull too.

You can do what DoP does, is model them facing Up (since you don't HAVE to model them forwards) and save on the dramaz.

Yes, modeling them on with magnets so they can be moved up out of the way is the best option. That way, you can put them up if people give you grief over it.

Yeah yeah yeah. I couldn't figure out how to fix the typo on the theme heading.

thunderingjove wrote:"Who the hell would stand on that thing and shoot?"

Orks.

I won't touch on the issue that has already been answered,
But for the "fluff" purposes, remind your opponents, Fluffwise: Orks are supposed to explode when they die, marines spit poison, and all necrons are fearless. Do any of these happen in-game? No.

I would ask my opponent whether or not to treat the DR as hull (let him decide) pre-game and use that trough-out the entire game. If an argument is raised about the DR you can always point out the rule and call him upon his decision whether to treat the DR as hull or not.

Be lenient, but consistent.

I would simply ask for consistency.

I sounds like you have already done so....and that is that.
Stop playing with them or live with it.

As an alternative mount the Deffrolla out of the way as has been suggested before.