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I run a small mech guard army atm, baesed around CCS and veterans squads in Chimeras, tooled up with plasma and melta weapons. Not original i know, but effective.

My question is, is 'Iron Hand' Straken worth taking if i want to commit these guys in assault? he provides MASSIVE bonuses, and is a CC machine (relatively speaking), but is a bit on the expensive side, especially when i am already running a mech vets list.

cK

I playtested him several times and he is a nice force multiplier for hybrid IG.
If you are playing with a power blob countercharge is awesome if you get charged (almost doubles your attacks).
But you state "I run a small mech..." What game size do you play normally, I think below 1500-1750 I would not include him, because 95 points is huge... you get a second CCS with 4 meltaguns instead for 90.

The troopers of my regiment know him as the Old Iron Butt. So far he has not disappointed me. The trophy count includes Daemon Princes, various big Tyranid bugs, MEQ´s and assorted riffraff. He is the only IG unit that consistently can engage enemy units in CC and win ( at least once ).

On a more serious note. Only consider him in games of 1.5K or more. Otherwise he eats up precious points from guns at those levels. Secondly only use him if you actually have infantry to benefit from his abilities ( infantry heavy or hybrid lists ). In a tank heavy list he is just a expensive luxury item.

Straken isn't worth it at this points level or in a mech army. Use Straken in an infantry heavy army of 1500pts (min. 1000pts). You should get more shooty stuff at this size of game.

If you are running mech IG, then Straken is not the best choice, as he does not support your army nearly as well.

atm i run a roughly 1500 points list which is based around three chimeras and three devil dogs. Also, a bunch of priests. i thought the priests/straken combo could work nicely.

thanks for the feedback, tho, looks like 'ole iron butt' is gonna have to wait till i get some more battalion boxes to get his whoop-ass on.

cK

When using Stracken I find him extremely hard-core...

When playing large scale I attatch Yarrick and a Ministorum Priest to the unit, they give you re-rolls in CC. Taking Melta Guns and a Medic in the squad giving you feel no pain. Then take Nork Deddog to back him up with a few "look out sir, aargh" saves.

This is extremely expensive but works wonders for me against, usually, marine opposition. Combining Yarrick and Stracken has been the bane of my regular opponent many times!

However, I agree with the others, he's great, but not in a smaller force!

geordie09 wrote:Then take Nork Deddog to back him up with a few "look out sir, aargh" saves.

Apart from thematic reasons why on earth would you take Nork? He is hideously expensive. The squad as a whole does not benefit from his higher Toughness until he is alone with some other survivor. Two regular Bodyguards give you double "Look out...aargh" for about half the price of Nork. Pimping IG HQ´s can be fun but there is point where you must ask yourself if it really is worth the 300+ point investment.

As people have said, 1500 points he fits in nicely, anything less and he BECOMES the infantry regiment.

You take him because he helps beef up the CC ability of the squad that little bit extra! Two bodyguards with ws 3 or a harder than normal ogryn bodyguard who packs a ws 5 punch?

If your playing a larger battle I would like to think this squad will easily remove double its value from the opposing players force! They can do infantry lines with ease, break tanks and the proests eviscerator will tear open a landraider... that aint bad!

i agree with A-P. I would take a Lord Commissar, Straken, Priest, (all with PF eq's and PP's for the LC) two bodyguards, standard, and three vets with meltas.

It's got everything: cheap ablative wounds (Tau Shield drones, anyone?), crazy powerful short ranged weps, and more CC muscle than Arnie in Tactical Dreadnought Armour.

cK

Why a lord? Too many points for methinks. He would cost as much as a meltavet squad

I'd never take a deathstar CCS. No matter how you cut it, you're looking at less than 10 T3 models with virtually no invul saves. A single large blast can make hundreds and hundreds of points of guardsmen die in a real dang hurry, and that's before you start talking about insane dedicated close combat units like banshees and wyches.

ColonelKlink wrote:i agree with A-P. I would take a Lord Commissar, Straken, Priest, (all with PF eq's and PP's for the LC) two bodyguards, standard, and three vets with meltas.

It's got everything: cheap ablative wounds (Tau Shield drones, anyone?), crazy powerful short ranged weps, and more CC muscle than Arnie in Tactical Dreadnought Armour.

cK

This is a truly terrible idea. That unit comes out to 375 points. Why on EARTH would you spend that much on a bunch of majority T3, 5+ save models. That's a truly obscene amount of points to spend, and you haven't included a Chimera (add on ANOTHER 55 points) so they'll be walking and completely at the mercy of a single battle cannon/demolisher round to drop onto them and the you can wave goodbye to potentially 30% of your army total.

If you come across a decent CC unit, such as an 8-man Bezerker unit, your squad will get utterly obliterated, and even in CC (where this unit is meant to excel) it really doesn't do all that well unless supported by a decent amount of other sqauds, of which you will have insufficient of because you spent such a large points allowance on this monstrosity.

It may have everything, but Guard are NOT an 'all your eggs in one basket' army. If you want to play that way I'd highly suggest you play a MEQ army instead.

L. Wrex

L. Wrex - harsh, but fair.

It is a whopping number of points to spend, but i think it's the only decent counter assault-type unit available - would you recommend ogryns instead, if i had my heart set on such a unit (also, i took a Chimera as read, just forgot to mention it)

cK

Rough Riders make an excellent counter charge unit, especially when supported by Straken (as this makes them S6 I6 power weapons on the charge). However, those lances are one use only, so you have to make sure that your charging/multi-charging a few units to make sure you make the most of their weapons. Also, don't forget that they do come with krak grenades as standard, and that the Sergeant can be given melta bombs, so even after they've expended their charge they can still make an effective anti-vehicle assault unit.

Ogryns are also a good choice as a counter-assault unit. Their natural high S and T coupled with multiple wounds per model will definetely allow them to do either take a charge and soak up a TON of damage, or charge in themselves and lay some hurt onto your opponents' units. One thing that does need to be said about Ogryns however is that, whilst you are paying Terminator points, Ogryns cannot really be used in the same way; they are a massive tarpit unit that can hold a squad up for pretty much the entire game, whilst also having the S and attacks to be able to inflict a few wounds back.

6 Ogryns costs 240pts whilst 10 Rough Riders cost 105pts and both of these units will probably be much more effectiive in the counter-attack than the 500pt CCS listed above.

Hope this helped!

L. Wrex

Right - ogryn, rough riders, CHEAP officer fist squads (as in, the officer squad + power fist + 2x flamers or something) all do charging well for their points.

Oh, that and there's power blobs. That guard do CC just as poorly as tau is a woeful misconception.