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Hi, I'm putting together a list for this year's GT. I'm thinking of including nightspinners to slow down aggresive armies and to counter attack when they get near with Yriel and the seer council in serpent.
The warpspiders will act as a cleanup squad. Comments and criticisms would be most appreciated.

Prince Yriel of Iyanden (HQ) @ 155 Pts

Farseer (HQ) @ 100 Pts
Runes of Warding, Fortune

8 Warlock (HQ) @ 330 Pts
Embolden (x1), Enhance (x1)
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

5 Fire Dragons (Elites) @ 190 Pts
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

5 Dire Avengers (Troops) @ 60 Pts

10 Guardian Storm Squad (Troops) @ 237 Pts
Flamer (x2)
Warlock
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

10 Guardian Defender Squad (Troops) @ 195 Pts
Grav Platform
Shuriken Cannon
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

7 Warp Spiders (Fast Attack) @ 171 Pts
Exarch upgrade
2 Deathspinners

1 Falcon (Heavy Support) @ 180 Pts
ML, Holo-fields, Spirit Stones

Night Spinner (Heavy Support) @ 115 Pts

Night Spinner (Heavy Support) @ 115 Pts

Models in Army: 54


Total Army Cost: 1848

Well, looks quite good. Not sure if the plan with the Night Spinners will work (slowing down aggressive armies).
I'd give the Farseer both runes as RoWit is useful vs Nids just in case your Council needs to charge them.

Thanks wuestenfux. It was a toss up between the Night Spinners and Fire Prisms. I figured that the NS would do the job better than the prisms. Also, since it is a new entry in the codex, I am hoping that it would catch my opponents off-guard to give me a bit of edge. It is quite a gamble tho because I don't see any lists with Night Spinners. Is there anything wrong with the spinner that not many people use them?

The Spinners are definitely worth a try.
By the way, I never had much luck with Prisms, even when twin linked.
Their damage output was always very limited.

I just used 3 prisms for the first time last weekend, and I thought they were wicked. Haven't tried night spinners, I imagine they're just as good if you play with plenty of LoS blocking terrain (the trade-off with fire prisms is that they are fairly fragile, so if your opponent brought decent long-range support you will lose some)

If I were taking guardians in a wave serpent, I would always take storm guardians with a warlock, and it's kind of a waste to not give a warlock any powers - either give each one destructor, or a singing spear and enhance IMO.

I don't really rate spirit stones, you're more likely to blow up or immobilise a tank outright than you are to stun it, so a lot of the time your upgrade is a total waste - its purpose is gone before it ever comes into play. And putting them on everything gets very expensive. I also used to play shuriken cannons on wave serpents, but just converted to missiles/scatter lasers and am a big fan. You're paying a lot for a resilient transport, might as well pay the premium for damage. Maybe put shurikens on the FD serpents, since they tend to get shot up first, then put scatter lasers or EMLs on the rest.

Don't really know much about warp spiders. At the end of the day I'd say this is a fairly sound mech eldar list - plenty of firepower and one good assault unit! So switch spirit stones for better weapons, and make some changes to the guardians is my only advice really.

Hope that helps.

I am not a fan of the Scoring Falcon Gunboat, but you could consider running the Two Fire Prism with One Night Spinner configuration.

Drop the Falcon. You can then drop the Bright Lances off the serpents (fire prisms will take over this role). And drop the 5 man DA squad(bery un-dakka imo).

Use the freed up points to add a Guardian Jetbike squad or possibly invest in a seer council buff.

GJB will allow you to get another fast scoring unit and you have other targets(other than GJB), that would be a priority for your opponents.

In this configuration you still get to keep the Night Spinner, and you get the awesomeness that is the Prism Combo. Without changing too much else in the list.

about my choice of guns on my waveserpents, i did a little math. TL Shuricannons seem to be the best option on serpents because it has a 13.5% chance to destroy a rhino (av11) with its 3 shots - the same chance a TL EML has coz it only gets one shot. that's 20 points saved per serpent. TL scatterlasers are up at 16.7% but imo is quite a small margin for me to save 15 points. its true that with scatterlasers you pay for the 36" range vs the 24" on the shuricannons, but i will be engaging in a mid range battle with the serpents anyway.

having said this, spirit stones are gems when fighting in mid-range to close-range. serpents being stunned when they are in assault range is as good as destroyed. eldar tanks are ace againts shooting attacks but fall like flies againts assault most esp if you your enemies auto-hit.

but i agree with having a warlock with the guardians.. the 2 flamer + destructor wipes horde armies clean. and you also get to dread/tank hunt with the warlock. i just didnt have enough points, will fix that right away.

my original list was 3 prisms. i just thought of using night spinners for a change. since i am already familiar with the use of prisms, i guess i will try phyrephly's suggestion of 2 prisms and 1 spinner over the gunboat falcon.

luksongtinik wrote:
my original list was 3 prisms. i just thought of using night spinners for a change. since i am already familiar with the use of prisms, i guess i will try phyrephly's suggestion of 2 prisms and 1 spinner over the gunboat falcon.

I think that the 3rd Prism gives target saturation, and if you lose one you still have a S9 Ap1 shot. But I think against hordes, the Night Spinner might be a bigger target so you probably wont be losing prisms anyway.

Depends on your opponent I guess.

Post an updated list if you have some time.

P.S, I LOVE yriel. If you can make him work, use him, heck even if you can't.

P.S, I LOVE yriel. If you can make him work, use him, heck even if you can't.

Well, Yriel could embark with the Council and leave it.
Both then charge a unit.
While the Farseer fortunes the Council, she dooms the unit Yriel is charging.
Now Yriel uses wrath to wipe out the enemy unit, thanks to doom and cc rule.
This is one way I have used Yriel and a Council.

wuestenfux wrote:

P.S, I LOVE yriel. If you can make him work, use him, heck even if you can't.

Well, Yriel could embark with the Council and leave it.
Both then charge a unit.
While the Farseer fortunes the Council, she dooms the unit Yriel is charging.
Now Yriel uses wrath to wipe out the enemy unit, thanks to doom and cc rule.
This is one way I have used Yriel and a Council.

Even a group of MEQ without too many Invul saves will be wiped out thanks to the AP3 hit. Also Doom won't matter, with the Eye causes a STR6 AP3 hit. You don't have to roll to hit with it.

"All models under the template take a STR6 AP 3 hit"

phyrephly wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

P.S, I LOVE yriel. If you can make him work, use him, heck even if you can't.

Well, Yriel could embark with the Council and leave it.
Both then charge a unit.
While the Farseer fortunes the Council, she dooms the unit Yriel is charging.
Now Yriel uses wrath to wipe out the enemy unit, thanks to doom and cc rule.
This is one way I have used Yriel and a Council.

Even a group of MEQ without too many Invul saves will be wiped out thanks to the AP3 hit. Also Doom won't matter, with the Eye causes a STR6 AP3 hit. You don't have to roll to hit with it.

"All models under the template take a STR6 AP 3 hit"

However, doom allows reroll to wound and this is very helpful here.
Otherwise, a Sergeant with a power fist might survive the wrath able to hit back.

True, I missed that.

Doomed Yriel Wrath has gotten me quite a few 20-man boyz squad kills - all but the nob =p It absolutely destroys marines though.

Zain60 wrote:Doomed Yriel Wrath has gotten me quite a few 20-man boyz squad kills - all but the nob =p It absolutely destroys marines though.

I had also great success with this tactics vs. MEQ.

Orks are a different story, since the Nob will stay no matter what.

so here is my revised list. comments and suggestions are still very much welcome


Eldar Army - 1850 points

Prince Yriel of Iyanden (HQ) @ 155 Pts

Farseer (HQ) @ 110 Pts
Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Fortune

8 Warlock (HQ) @ 330 Pts
Embolden (x1), Enhance (x1)
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

5 Fire Dragons (Elites) @ 190 Pts
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

10 Guardian Storm Squad (Troops) @ 237 Pts
Flamer (x2)
Warlock, Destructor
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

10 Guardian Storm Squad (Troops) @ 230 Pts
Fusion Guns (x2)
Warlock, Singing Spear
Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

7 Warp Spiders (Fast Attack) @ 181 Pts
Exarch upgrade
2 Deathspinners, Powerblades

Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 150 Pts
Holo-fields

Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 150 Pts
Holo-fields

Night Spinner (Heavy Support) @ 115 Pts

Models in Army: 50
Claiming Units: 2
Kill Points: 14

I like the revised list, only issue I have is that you are very light on scoring units at 1850. I have 3 scoring units at 1500 points, so if your guardians get eaten up you are going to have a tought time in the objective games.

My only consideration for fixing that would be to drop the striking scorpions and some of the holo fields or Spirit stones from the tanks, add another Guardian Squad with a Wave Serpent. I never run any Holo-fields but I know how good they are. I also only use Spirit Stones on my Fire Dragon WS since they WANT to get up close and personal.

Also RoWit is not one of the upgardes I take. But YMMV.

Good overall list though.

ok thanks, those are good points. i might need more scoring units more than the holofields. so i guess i will swap the fields for a troop choice, dont know what yet tho.. i hope i can still fit another guardian squad in there, i dont like dire avengers so much..

I'd take two nakes Prisms and add more Warp Spiders.
My experience tells me that Spider squads should be maxed out.

How come? It's harder to move with them the larger the squad gets, at any rate. I'd rather take two 5-man squads than one 10-man.

wuestenfux wrote:I'd take two nakes Prisms and add more Warp Spiders.
My experience tells me that Spider squads should be maxed out.

Worry about the spiders once the troops have been beefed up.

if you need another objective taking troop choice, why not pathfinders rather than another guardian squad? Cover save + snipers is great for objective sitting.

phyrephly wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:I'd take two nakes Prisms and add more Warp Spiders.
My experience tells me that Spider squads should be maxed out.

Worry about the spiders once the troops have been beefed up.

Well, generally, I do crazy things with my Spiders.
I told this story already, ...
Once I faced Nids and when the smaller bugs were close, my Spiders moved 12'' inside of the scary swarm,
shot the Warriors further behind and moved into a building behind the swarm.
My opponent got nuts.

phyrephly wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:I'd take two nakes Prisms and add more Warp Spiders.
My experience tells me that Spider squads should be maxed out.

Worry about the spiders once the troops have been beefed up.

I concur... I don't think spiders need to be taken in max squads unless you have 2kpts to throw around. Especially when more crucial weaknesses of the list can be tweaked.

I don't feel anything past 8 spiders is doable anymore at 1850. It simply becomes too hard to get them behind cover either before shooting or after assault moves. Also, generally speaking, I never have problems with running 8 at 1850 or 6 at 1500... They're just enough to do the job effectively at that point level, but not so much that they can't hide if needed. I'm probably going to run 7 (including exarch) in my revised list with the Autarch taking the 8th spot.

I think with a full seer council as your deathstar/strike force the Warp Spiders should probably be dropped completely, or the seer squad minimized. This is a biased statement based on me not really liking either of those to units, so take that statement with a pinch of salt.

How to effectively field Warp Spiders is a tactical question. It doesn't really have any impact on the list building discussion. I think once the only flaw in the list is addressed(lack of troops) the Warp Spider discussion might be moot.

Good upgrade on R of Witnessing. A failed Fortune roll will mean the end of your seer council.

I like the flamer guardians, but the fusion guardians are going to be redundant. You have Fire Dragons and Fire Prisms that will be taking care of the big tanks, and the seer council and warp spiders (even with AP-) should be able to handle the small tanks. I'd like to see them stay as a max DA squad if you can.

Warp Spiders I used to hate, but have lately been wanting to try them out, so I can't give any advice on how best to use them at this point, ask me again in a while

The holo-fields on the Fire Prisms can be dropped if you need to free up points. They're nice, but not required.

I think the big thing is that you need another troop choice. Even if it's fairly minimal and unable to do (or take) much damage, you at least need something else to try and grab an objective.

I'll toss my 2 cents in:

- I've played many games with a Nightspinner at this point, dual Nightspinners won't really be effective so good thought on switching to 2 prisms and a spinner. I personally would suggest holo's for all three. Remember even a weaponless grav tank can still contest/ram and holoed vehicles are a pain to remove from the game.

- Seer Council on foot, so terrible slow. This will priority 1 target to pop the transport of and once they are out you'll be lucky if they reach combat.

- Definitely worth repeating, 2 troops at 1850 is a recipe for failure.

- I'd drop all the spirit stones from the vehicles... you really won't notice a deference.

- TL S Cannons, gah. Person preference but never go lover then scatter lasers, 12" and an extra shot is well well worth the cost.

- Storms with Fusion guns and spear... um... getting your squishy troop (1 of the two you have) out 6-12" from an enemy tank to blow it up... sounds like a good idea to you?

BlueDagger wrote:
- Seer Council on foot, so terrible slow. This will priority 1 target to pop the transport of and once they are out you'll be lucky if they reach combat.

Just to mention, the Seer Council is in a WS. Which is not really that bad.

phyrephly wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:
- Seer Council on foot, so terrible slow. This will priority 1 target to pop the transport of and once they are out you'll be lucky if they reach combat.

Just to mention, the Seer Council is in a WS. Which is not really that bad.

My Council also rides in a Serpent and will disembark early in the game.
Even if the Serpent will come under heavy fire, it will be fortuned.

K so with your Serpent Seer council you fortune it and full out. The serpent at that point will be a 4+ double save which is impressive and hard to kill. You however still suffer the same issue as all other Eldar CC in that you can't assault till you either wait in place within range for a turn or get out and assault the next turn, either of which you are praying your opponent is dumb enough to stay in range AND doesn't have a psy hood to break your fortune. Either situation you will be predictable and slow.

For 485 points there is more reliable things you could do.

BlueDagger wrote:K so with your Serpent Seer council you fortune it and full out. The serpent at that point will be a 4+ double save which is impressive and hard to kill. You however still suffer the same issue as all other Eldar CC in that you can't assault till you either wait in place within range for a turn or get out and assault the next turn, either of which you are praying your opponent is dumb enough to stay in range AND doesn't have a psy hood to break your fortune. Either situation you will be predictable and slow.

For 485 points there is more reliable things you could do.

Frankly, I never had problems with staying inside and waiting for the next turn to come.
Generally, the Council disembarks in round 2 (or 3).
I've beaten Space Wolves and Nids badly with this tactics.