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So I've been playing a few games play testing out some wolve list ideas and I seem to destroy most of the other comp lists I come up with but the salamanders list with Land Raider Redeemer and Vulakn with a Libby and 5 Th/Ss Termies in it just hurts my wolves so much.
Maybe it's because I have only 4 lascannons in my list .

So I was wondering how you guys deal with such units known as "death stars" mainly like the terminators.

I was thinking about a Wolf Lord to beat them at their own game.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Personally; I use 1 of my Melta armed grey hunter units to "pop" the land raider(a priority target for them whether or not it held an nasty CC unit); if they fail to destroy it with a close range melta attack, their razorback fires its assaultcannons at the raider. If that fails they wait for the termies to get out and assault them, having a less than optimal day(but still getting just as many attacks as the termies, most of those going before the termies).

If the squad or Razorback manage to destroy the Land Raider; massed fire is brought down on the termies from units close by.

I wouldn't call a unit of 5 terminators with attached characters a "death star" even when riding in a LRR. Sure it is rather pricey all together like that, but it really isn't a true death star. It also isn't that hard to beat if you know how.

First: Lascannons vs AV 14 is ineffective. 2/3 hit, 1/6 pen. 4 lascannons isn't going to do the job. 10 lascannons isn't going to do the job. The numbers are strongly against S9 weapons against heavy armor. If you want to kill land raiders, bring the right guns. That is melta, multi melta, or S10 AP1 weapons.

Second: once the cargo is out of the transport, you need the right type of fire power to kill the termies. Hint: don't bother with plasma. It isn't point efficient against 3++. Just spam as many bolter shots into them as possible. Just trying to force as many armor saves as possible, 1/6 save failure when the models are so dangerous and expensive is an acceptable rate if you are using small arms.

Lastly: expect whatever unit that gets assaulted to die. Really, that is the usual result. You can try to make a unit that is just as good in CC, but playing that game just puts your fate squarely on the dice results. Something I personally loathe doing. Since you know what is getting assaulted is going to die, why not control what your opponent assaults? Give him a tempting sacrificial unit to go after. Preferably one he can go through in 1 combat round. Then shoot his now in the open termie squad to pieces.

My friend your dilemma can be fixed by a 6-man HB Long fangs =).

Make sure you kill the land raider first tho. Thats the job of your lascannons and meltas. MLs if desperate.

Btw, 4 las cannons are enough.

The usual approach I do when dealing with super threats is the point per point basis:

The land raider costs 250 points. If it has 5 terminators it costs another 200 points. With an IC the total would probably be around 600 points.

I throw as much fire power at it based on points.

4 Lascannons from Razorbacks: 300 points
5 missiles from Long fangs: 140 points
15 heavy bolter shots from Long Fangs against terminators: 115 points

That's 555 points of fire power. If that did not blunt the threat, you are gonna apply more force on it, and that puts you in a disadvantage. If it works you can rest easy.

Honestly? Pop the Land Raider with a melta/multimelta, move up with 3x 9 man grey hunter squads with Wolf Standards and PF Wolf Guard, shoot 24 bolt pistols and 3 meltaguns, and then charge with all 3 of them. Make sure you can block off LoS or get into cover with your massacre if your opponent has vindicators.

zeekill wrote:Honestly? Pop the Land Raider with a melta/multimelta, move up with 3x 9 man grey hunter squads with Wolf Standards and PF Wolf Guard, shoot 24 bolt pistols and 3 meltaguns, and then charge with all 3 of them. Make sure you can block off LoS or get into cover with your massacre if your opponent has vindicators.

The better thing to do is to surround the terminators then just rapidfire. Let them charge you you have counter attack.

The BEST thing to do is Pop the LR and then IGNORE the terminators. if their ride gets popped on their sid eof the field they will have to walk. at that point they arn't a threat. you may not be able to kill them, but you don't have to.

a Suicide Melta Dred can Drop pod next to the raider and hopefully kill or immobilize it. then the dred dies, but thats fine. you neutered 750+ points of his army for less then 150 points.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Personally; I use 1 of my Melta armed grey hunter units to "pop" the land raider(a priority target for them whether or not it held an nasty CC unit);

Thats what a Chaos player would do with CSMs or PMs assuming they couldn't use Termicide to counter it, so it makes the most sense to me since GH squads are cheaper then either of the Chaos options.

Thanks for all the replies.

@Kommissar Kel
I have meltas in my squad but only 1 each and 1 5 man unit with a flamer in the current list I've been trying, I'll try your idea by shuffling some points around to make a suicide grey hunter unit.

@Notabot187
So I should get rid of the lascannons on my longfangs and go back to Missile Launchers? I have 2 scout squads with melta and wolf guard with combi melta with them but I guess I've been rolling badly for them (and the meltas in my grey hunter squad).
Good point about how they're expensive but dangerous, I shouldnt be thinking they'll die like normal marines... Not even putting plasma on anything in my list 1/6 chance of hurting my own squad? No thanks.
I know what ever they assault will die so I guess my 5 man squad will have to lure them so I dont lose any thing to costly. Thanks

@Yuber
Are the Heavy bolter longfang squads realy effective? I like the idea of them but I see the Missile Launcher being able to help in more situations.

@Zeekill
Charging them dosnt work, I've tried very bad idea heh. rapid fire with bolters from those 3 squads could take them down to 1 or 2 most of the time then counter assault should hopfully finish them off (Happened my play test last game, ended in a tie so I'm getting there).

@Yuber
Agreed

@Grey Templar
1 Melta/Multimelta wont kill land raiders all the time thats why I wish to stay away from dreadnaughts, also I dont like the idea of giving my opponent 1 maybe 2 easy kill points but if nothing else works I'll give this a try.
Good idea on ignoring the terminators, as soon as they get close Missile Launchers and bolters will deal with them .

@Minigun762
Good point there (if only space wolves could get chosen, love 5 meltas in 1 squad).

Another thing I found to work by play testing is that after the land raider goes down I can use Murderous Hurricane on the terminators and realy slow them down also make moving a risk for them.

Thank you all very very much for the help, I'll have to do a lot of play testing to night .

ShasO Ben wrote:Thanks for all the replies.

@Yuber
Are the Heavy bolter longfang squads realy effective? I like the idea of them but I see the Missile Launcher being able to help in more situations.

It depends: if your HS FOC slot contains something else other than long fangs, then HB Long fangs are not necessary. I, myself, fill all my HS slots with Long fangs. Both of which are MLs and the the third being HB.

Then again the best tactic is what Grey templar said. Just ignore them. If they're pretty close to you you can block them with a cruising rhino or land speeder, then give them more bolter love.

I would suggest a droppod of wolf guards in power armor with combimeltas, that'll pop anything you need, after that, it is just forcing a ton of armor saves, those 1's will come eventually!!!