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oke, so I wanted to make 1 1000 point list, ready for most of my regular oppnents ('nids, mech BA, SM, DA), and most missions. (excluding COD and Planetsrike)

The list.

HQ:
- CCS -----70 pts
vox
3 sniper rifles

TROOPS
+-Platoon 1
- PCS ------ 35pts
vox

- 3x infantry squad -------- 180 pts
vox
Grenade launcher

-mortar squad --------- 60 pts

+ Platoon 2
-PCS --------120 pts
Vox
3 grenade launchers
Al Rahem

- 2x infantry squads ------- 130 pts
vox
Melta gun

Autocannon Team --------- 75

+ Veterans ------ 160
vox
3 plasma guns
missile launcher

HEAVY
+ LRBT -------- 185
Lascannon
Bolter sponsons.


______________________________________________________________---
I know the autocannon squad with the outflanking AL Rahem seems odd, but....
I played the 1st game with this army list, and it was pretty good. it was 2OOO points. Me with 1000 pts Guards and Hendarons Brother: Lord_Jarl's SM, against Hendarons mech BA.

it went well, the snipers in the command squad glancing a Land Raider a few times, the LMBT scoring some hits,...the game was basicaly: 'there's an objective in the middle of the map, Take it'. So at Turn 3 I hadn't lost a sigle Guardsmen yet, but I did kill quite a few of BA. I sent my Guards from Platoon 1 forward, because Platoon 2 (Al Rahem) hadn't arrived yet. I might have to free up some points to take an imperial advisor though...
At the end of turn 3, I lost 4 guardsmen bacause of an exploding Land raider wich Lord_Jarl shot. ( I some what had a smal RAGE, but we managed to laugh on it.)
They had to stop, because they gad to leave, But I am certain I could have sweeped the objective area clear of the BA, and then taken the objective. ah...well...

I am open to Criticism.

How does +d3 for rending allow you to glance land raiders?

In any case, this list is desperately short on firepower for its points. You've basically got a russ and a handful of medium-strength shots that don't ignore armor saves. That and the infantry platoons don't have commissars, which means you can count on them horribly breaking and running at first whiff of close combat.

I would definitely start by dropping the vets so that you can arm the rest of your forces properly.

I'm not a giant fan a foot guard anyway but your list is not optimized at all for them. Generally you want the same weapons or weapons of similar S,AP, and purpose in a squad. The LR for instance is either going to be waisting its ap3 by shooting at bugs or its going to be waisting its heavy bolters shooting at tanks etc. Plus using different weapons allows your opponent to play wound allocation games and put all the quality shots on the same guy. The vets & russ need changing. Other foot squads would probably do better with heavy weapons buried in them.

Ailaros wrote:How does +d3 for rending allow you to glance land raiders?

whoops, I have to check that again. Mistake on my part. it's been a while since I played at all. I will tell the guys next time I seen them.

I am more than willing to drop the vets. although they did quite well in that game, I have to drop them to make the overall list better, like you said.

I am not a big fan of commisars. that, combined with the fact that I never done it and that I don't even have a comissar model, is the reason why I don't run them.

would it ber better to swap the LRBT for an executioner? or would it be best to just drop it. I wanna make this list better, but on the otherhand I want to keep some form of armour in it. even if it be it a hellhound varient...

I'll rewrite the list this evening.

Mech. Is. Unbeatably. (in a friendly environment )

Las/melta CCS and PCS in Chimera's with Vet spamz and a few Vendetta's - and maybe a few LRBTs? HELL YES!

and then I have a carbon copy of every guardplayer's list on the internet.

I want to run Infantry, not Mech


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and besides, how the heck would al that fit in a 1000 point list?

You can do infantry, and even do it well in 1000 points. There are a few things that you need to have to make it work, though.

1.) lots and lots of guys. At least 60 in 1000 points. You've already got this part down.

2.) stubborn. You don't need to use PIS commissars if you don't want to, but you DO need to have some source of stubborn if you want to survive against any close-combat-themed army in the future.

Without commissars, look to Chenkov, who projects stubborn, or perhaps taking penal legionnaires or ogryn who get it for free.

3.) lots and lots of high-power stuff. PCSs let you field 4 plasma or melta guns. Power blobs put down 4 power weapons (and perhaps an eviscerator or more special weapons). It is so easy to absolutely pack infantry lists with literally dozens of tasty weapons with high strength, low ap, or both.

Currently, your list does not do this. As of now, you have 4 weapons which are S8 or better. On the flip side, you have 5 weapons that are good at ignoring armor. When you take out the overlap, you have spent 1000 points, and only have 7 real weapons in the entire list.

The first thing you're going to want to do is upgrade some of the worthless weapons you're bringing like grenade launchers and sniper rifles and to a slightly lesser extent autocannons, and put in weapons that are at least S8 or AP3. The second thing you're going to want to do is to actually fill up the weapons slots that you have. You have a PCS, a literal gold mine for killing power, that has NO UPGRADES. This needs to be corrected.

Whether you want to go power blobs or special weapons hedge is up to you, but you need to have killing power, especially in close, which is where most armies will be getting in a starkly short period of time.

Scrazza wrote:and then I have a carbon copy of every guardplayer's list on the internet.

I want to run Infantry, not Mech


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and besides, how the heck would al that fit in a 1000 point list?

Damn you Scrazza! *fetches IG codex*

HQ:
Company Command squad - 190
-Plasmagun x3
-Medi-pack
-Plasma pistol
-Chimera

Elites: --


Troops:

Veteran squad - 190
-3x Plasmagun
-Lascannon
-Chimera

Platoon Command squad - 120
-Autocannon
-x1 Flamer
-x1 Heavy flamer
-Chimera

Infantry squad - 130
-Lascannon
-Grenade Launcher
-Chimera

Infantry squad - 130
-Lascannon
-Grenade Launcher
-Chimera

Veteran squad - 165
-3x Plasmagun
-Lascannon
-Demolitions

Fast attack:

-Vendetta - 130


Above list is 1055pts. I'm sure with a little working, drop a squad here add a squad there, you'll be able to work it all out. IMO full vet spam would be better suited, especially at this pts level.

Also, if you want to do foot guard - 50 man blob squads with 5 lascannons, a commissar with a power weapon and 5 power weapons + 1 vox caster. Spam these. A PCS with Chenkov and 50 Conscripts led by a Priest with an eviscerator. Add a CCS in a Chimera with Creed or even better - Straken - with a host of melta or plasma and a few tanks and you've got a seriously badass force.

sniper rifles roll armor pen with 2d6, and both dice can produce a rend result thus you can get double 6's and then rolls 2d3. It is possible to get an 18 for armor pen. the problem is your hoping on that 1 in 36 chance of getting a double 6. i'd personally take a las cannon. or melta

aleis wrote:sniper rifles roll armor pen with 2d6, and both dice can produce a rend result thus you can get double 6's and then rolls 2d3. It is possible to get an 18 for armor pen. the problem is your hoping on that 1 in 36 chance of getting a double 6. i'd personally take a las cannon. or melta

What the hell?

Sniper rifles count as strength 3 versus armour values and roll D6 to penetrate. Because of rending, they may get a further D3. That is all. Dunno what rulebook you're reading from mate.

oke, so thanks for the input guys.

I remade the list, and hope it's better now. I hope it'll pac a punch.

Crtiticism welcome.

HQ
- CCS: 70 pts
vox
3 sniper rifles.

TROOPS
- Platoon 1
PCS: 80 pts
vox
3 plasma guns

4 x Infantry squad: 240 pts
vox
grenade laucher

Mortars: 60 pts
Autocannons : 75 pts

- Platoon 2
PCS: 120 pts
Al Rahem
vox
3 grenade launchers

3 x infantry squads : 195 pts
vox
melta

special weapons squad: 95
3 demo charges

FAST ATTACK

Scout sentinal squad: 100
2 x Sent.
lascannons
____________________________________________________________________________________

oke so, this is the list, not sure about the 3 demo charges, might be dangerous.

The only problem might be that I am now 35 points above the limit. any ideas?

sorry, but this list is actually WORSE than the first one. You've added 1 melta and 1 plasma worth of firepower, and you added 10 more non-stubborn dudes at the cost of your AV14.

The firepower got marginally better, but is still terrible, while your durability went DOWN.

it seems I still have a lot to learn about making lists.

Damn noobs at my local GW made me make bad lists


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anyway, I'll make a new one by tomorrow.
But there is the fact to consider that This list resembles pretty much I have of Infantry
I have to buy some lascannons.


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sugestions?

aleis wrote:sniper rifles roll armor pen with 2d6, and both dice can produce a rend result thus you can get double 6's and then rolls 2d3. It is possible to get an 18 for armor pen. the problem is your hoping on that 1 in 36 chance of getting a double 6. i'd personally take a las cannon. or melta

If this were the case, I would take sniper rifles roughly..............................100% of the time. Maybe 1000% of the time,

anyway, I agree with Ailaros. Your lists are all over the place in terms of what you want to accomplish with them. You can't make guard units jack of all trades type unit. They need to be focused on one task whether it be anti-tank, tarpit, anti infantry, etc.

Scrazza wrote:sugestions?

There are a couple of ways you could take this with keeping commissars to a minimum:


CCS 3x plasma standard, meltabombs - 95

PCS, chenkov 3x melta-110
PIS, plasma, meltabombs - 70
PIS, plasma, meltabombs - 70
PIS, plasma, meltabombs - 70

PIS 3x melta - 60
PIS, plasma, meltabombs - 70
PIS, plasma, meltabombs - 70
PIS, plasma, meltabombs - 70

LRBT, hull lascannon
LRBT


or...

CCS 4x plasma, astropath - 140

PIS, al'rahem, 3x melta - 130
PIS, commissar with power weapon, plasma, - 110
PIS, plasma, meltabombs - 70
PIS, plasma, meltabombs - 70

PIS, 3x melta - 60
PIS, plasma, meltabombs - 70
PIS, plasma, meltabombs - 70
PIS, plasma, meltabombs - 70

Penal legion - 80
Penal legion - 80
Penal legion - 80

Or something more choppy, like this except with al'rahem thrown back in or something.

There are lots of ways you can take it, with or without outflankers, or armor, or whatever. The point is, though, that you've got to maximize your firepower better and get SOME form of stubborn around.