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Hello everyone,
I am a painter of toy soldiers and thier rides and I consider what I do about tabletop quality. I am pretty sticky about my painting and have been doing it for around 12 years. So often when I see "propainted" I look cause I am always curoius about paint jobs and schemes. So I tend to find it wierd when someone lists something as "propainted" when it is horribad, or just around tabletop. Most often I find this kind of thing on ebay for some outragoues price and just wonder what they are thinking. So I figured I would ask you what you figured "propainted" should look like. That being said I understand that "propainted" could mean that they paid a person to do it, so that is not really the answer I am looking for here. So Painters and buyers of painted models lets here what you have to say

I would answer but your avatar is oddly hypnotic…and... I... can't... seem... to... focus...

I skip over every "pro painted" listing on ebay, its a well known fact that they are almost universally s***

I think everyone ignores them nowadays. So when 'master' and 'expert' painted minis go the same way, I wonder what other superlatives the idiots will claim next...

I think the one that threw me the most recently was a eldar model, it seemed to have been just dipped in paint, and details thrown on as after thought, over thick paint (sorta like the A-10 Warthog engines, "oh wait we forgot something"). They wanted around 40$ or more for it I don't remember, for a single model I was rather suprised.

Well the thing is, those 'pro-painters' are actually that. They paint models and sell them, therefore, they were painted by a professional painter. Some sorry painter found a technicality and used it to sucker people who are drawn in by the word, 'pro'. I've sold some stuff on E-Bay and have always used the term 'table top standard' to describe the quality of my work. I know that technically I am a professional painter, but I feel as though using it in the description is somewhat deceitful. I paint things to what most people would deem table top standard, so that's the route I take.

remember that pro is short for professional - ie you get paid for doing it. Therefore if the person has sold a mini then, legally, they can call themselves a 'pro-painter'.

Pro = professional, ie, your profession, something that requires an acquired skill to offer an ongoing service. It can either be your job or supplement your income.

In my mind, that means they have been painted to a professional standard, now exactly where you draw the line I don't know but a lot of the gak on eBay doesn't cut it.

Simply throwing some paint at something and selling it on at a later date does not make one a professional painter any more than getting paid to paint a wall makes you a professional decorator. Many professional painters will operate as a small business, they will offer price lists and sometimes a variation in quality depending upon the charge but usually even the lowest quality is good. They set the bar for a 'professional standard' if a measure needs to be had because they are the closest anyone comes to painting for a living, their profession. If you can match that, then you are painting to a professional standard IMO.

People selling their shoddy old miniature collection can call themselves 'pro-painters' if they like because ultimately it's a meaningless term with no legal basis underlying standards or any form of accreditation. But they ain't professional painters, not in any meaningful sense.

The problem is if someone paints a mini, and then sells it, they can then say they are a "pro painter" because someone actually bought it. Even though usually those that are bought, is because the person liked the mini or the tank was cheap enough and it got a nice SuperClean bath a week later.

I agree, most "pro painted" I see on ebay are my skill level or much much lower. Its annoying but what can you do

Sorry, but when I see Pro-Painter or RARE on eBay that means Ignore this auction.

This old chestnut

Sorry but: splodge paint on a mini and sell it = professional status?

I have made fun of such auctions myself even though I'm barely table-top good. Surely it's just to attract searches from people who don't have the time to get to beginner levels.

besides...

If they make a profession out of "splodging paint on a mini and selling it," is the figure not pro-painted?

That is the point. They are not up to the required standard.

That is a poor excuse.
If one person uses the title to attract attention it will do so.
When everyone starts using the term in such a loose manner then customers will switch off and it becomes meaningless.

There are people on Dakka that offer painting services at a good standard. They are professional imho.
It is dishonest to make any inference that ones' work is on a par with real professionals when it is sub-standard.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:That is the point. They are not up to the required standard.

That is a poor excuse.
If one person uses the title to attract attention it will do so.
When everyone starts using the term in such a loose manner then customers will switch off and it becomes meaningless.

There are people on Dakka that offer painting services at a good standard. They are professional imho.
It is dishonest to make any inference that ones' work is on a par with real professionals when it is sub-standard.

But it's all relative.. What is the "required standard?" By "sub-standard," whose standard are you comparing it to?

If the word "pro-painted" becomes meaningless, who cares? It's the auction picture that tells everyone it's not all that pro. And it's the picture that will tell a customer if the figure is worth purchasing. Good painters' work can speak for itself, don't you think?

good grief man
Yes thank you.
I do think. About all sorts of things more important than this question. But since you insist on trading the well worn phrases...

yes it's all relative and Bob's your Uncle

But it is inexcusable to say you are a Pro-painter when the work is obviously sub standard.

If it is meaningless why bloody well insult yourself and the customers' intelligence?

You said it is used to attract attention. Why waste time drawing attention to the fact that you are an incompetant painter and a charlatan to boot?

It is, moreover, an insult and to those who have a more legitimate claim to the title and a distraction.

. If the work speaks for itself and is sub par why call it Pro painted? No excuses other thatn idiocy.
Don't you think?

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:If the work speaks for itself and is sub par why call it Pro painted?

Because the word speaks for itself, and if buyers really are dumb enough to think 'pro-painted' means 'skilfully painted' or 'painted to a really really high standard,' then they're... well, ignorant.

If 'professional' meant 'skilled', there'd be a problem. It doesn't.

good grief man

But since you insist on trading the well worn phrases...

Hey, relax. Nothing's at stake here.

Why waste time drawing attention to the fact that you are an incompetant painter and a charlatan to boot?

Funny point! But the reason why is very simple:

"PRO PAINTED" = more views for your auction
more views = higher chance of selling
higher chance of selling = ???
??? = PROFIT!!

If they get just 1 buyer for every 100 people like you and I who turn away in disgust, they're coming out ahead. It's not idiocy, it's money!
..OK, maybe both.

If you can consider Jackson Pollock as a professional artist, then you can consider those people as professional painters.

The issue here is between the Connotation and Denotation of the word Pro, or Professional.

The Dictionary definition of the word is "following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain".
Meaning that any schlub who sells a single painted mini can claim pro staus because they have gained monetarily from their painting.

The Connotation associated to the word Professional is quality. We assume a proffesional must have experience to make a living or gain from thier painting.

These "Pro's" can give you bad quality, but still call themselves Professionals just like people giving bad service for your car repairs.


Pro =/= Quality



(edit) really I just commented on this thread so I can easily find Ghiest1's Avatar again.

If you can consider Jackson Pollock as a professional artist, then you can consider those people as professional painters.

Nice!

I used to work for GW and thus have more right than most to call some of my minis " pro painted" as at some stage in my hobby career i was actually paint to paint models that i did not own or was selling

However i consider my standard to be higher than table top standard but by no means top standard infact probably laughable when compared to some of the greats from eavy metal for example

i therefore out of principle do not list my stuff as pro painted when i sell i just call them well painted and then let pics do the talking

i did a bit of research and the search pro painted actually gets less hits than the search pro painted by that i mean that more (nearly twice as many people) search for well painted that search for pro painted and thus my lots will in theory get viewed by more people anyway

i think that this shows that people are getting wise to the fact that there are peopel out there that think saying there minis are pro painted will sell !!

starsdawn wrote:If you can consider Jackson Pollock as a professional artist, then you can consider those people as professional painters.

Because he just dribbled paint everywhere...anyone could do that amirite!?!


Ignorant art-jokes aside, why does anyone care what people title their auctions with? If there are no pictures then no-ones going to pay extra for the paint job. If there are pictures then you know what you're getting.
No-one is going to spend $100 on Calgar dipped in horse urine just because the auction title says "pro-painted". They are going to look at the pictures and decide if that particular model and paint job is worth the cost to them. At best the auction title will get someone to open the auction up. Unless they then think it's rude not to place a bid that's as far as the auction title helps you.

The only title's that are misleading in a significant way are the ones that claim honours that the mini has never won, like Golden Demon winning blah blah.

While 'professional' can describe someone who receives money for a service, that ignores a huge nuance of the word: that if someone is considered a professional, there is an expectation of a consistently higher-than-average performance--which is why the OP feels mislead.

The reality is, the commission painters on this website work for pennies. If you really need your Calgar model painted and you don't have the experience to make him look good yourself, supporting the painters here is a far better option than some dick from argentina putting up 125x200 grainy-ass, pixelated shots of a model and asking 50 extra bucks for a service of indeterminate quality.

I dont feel mislead, I think I just find it strange. So I wanted to get some opinions, keep in mind, there are many good painters at your LGS who will even work for barter. So I guess I wanted know more of what quality level you feel should be present for some one to use that term. Granted I am not thinking GD winners and such, but more of what little things you would expect on a model, lets say between TT and Pro quaility.

That term really has too much baggage to be useful anymore, imho. I tend to just describe the paint job for how I see it... i.e. "Excellently painted" if it's truly incredible, or "Well painted" for at / just above a good tabletop quality.

You do rarely see one labeled as such that ACTUALLY meets the term; but those only appear when the the stars line up and it's a particular phase of the moon..... and on a day that starts with X.

Complaining about the use of "Pro-painted" on Ebay? Is it Wednesday already?

You know what they say, "buyer be ware".