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HQ Shas'el
plasma/cyclic ion blaster/targetting array, HW multi-tracker, HW shield drone x2, bonding knife

HQ Ethereal
bonding knife
HQ/Troop Firewarrior Honorguard x11

Elite Crisis Team x3
plasma/missile/multi-tracker x2
leader: bonding knife, plasma/missile/targeting array, HW Multi-tracker, HW shield drone x2

Elite Crisis Team x3
plasma/missile/multi-tracker x3

Elite Crisis Team x3
burst/missile/multi-tracker x2
leader: plasma/missile/targeting array, HW Multi-tracker, HW gun drone x2

Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife

Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife

Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife

Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife

Troop Kroot x20

Troop Kroot x20

Squadron
Fast Attack Vespid x8

Fast Attack Gun Drone Squadron x8

Fast Attack Gun Drone Squadron x8

Heavy Broadside x2
Targeting Array x2
leader: bonding knife, HW target lock, HW shield drone x2

Heavy Broadside x2
Targeting Array x2
leader: bonding knife, HW target lock, HW shield drone x2

= 2500
total model count = 148 (99 scoring)

So this is what happens when a tau player thinks he's playing an imperial guard army. I designed this army so that the player will laugh at my army.
well to them I say, "ha! Who needs mobility when you have so many people willing to die for the greater good?"

I actually think this army has a lot of potential and fluffwise is fun because I actually choose to use an ethereal. After all if you are gonna use one then go big on the firewarriors amiright? The missile pods and railguns provide modest anti-tank power with a screen large enough to keep just about anything out and the firepower to react. I also have the gun drones and vespid that I can either drop backfield to contest objectives or behind armored things like dreadnoughts and artillery for some fun! Not to mention the jump-shoot-jump moves the suits have allow them to always have a cover save by hiding behind the warriors.
Scoring shouldn't be too hard either as the kroot can outflank if they choose or infiltrate as a distraction and I basically have 59 firewarriors that can slog it up the field. The two fireknife teams and the commander also provide a wonderful amount of protection against fnp and TMC armies with their glorious plasma.

What do you guys think?

I would totally play this... but...

I know you want a high model count, but really, two units of pathfinders would really help you.

Also, in my experience, Vespids stink hard. When I've used them, they just don't work.

Beyond that, I like your battlesuits, except for Commander. CIB just doesn't go well with a PR.

Seconded - redo your fast attack. Pathfinders, maybe some piranahs for some quick hitting anti tank (if that doesn't conflict with your theme) the rail rifles on your pathfinders would do well replacing your ap3 vespids.

K so here is my revised list.

HQ Shas'el
plasma/cyclic ion blaster/targetting array, HW multi-tracker, HW shield drone x2, bonding knife

HQ Ethereal
HQ/Troop Firewarrior Honorguard x11 = 132

Elite Crisis Team x3
plasma/missile/multi-tracker x2
leader: bonding knife, plasma/missile/targeting array, HW Multi-tracker, HW shield/gun drone

Elite Crisis Team x3
plasma/missile/multi-tracker x3

Elite Crisis Team x3
burst/missile/multi-tracker x2
leader:knife, plasma/missile/targeting array, HW Multi-tracker, HW gun/shield drone

Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife

Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife

Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife

Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife

Troop Kroot x20

Troop Kroot x20

Fast Attack Pathfinder x8
railrifle x3
leader: knife
Devilfish
disruption pod, smart missile system, targeting array, multi-tracker

Heavy Broadside x2
Targeting Array x2
leader: bonding knife, HW target lock, HW shield drone x2

Heavy Broadside x2
Targeting Array x2
leader: bonding knife, HW target lock, HW shield drone x2

Heavy Sniper Drone Team

= 2500

So as you guys suggested I added a warfish and pathfinder and took out the vespid and drone squads due to point constraints. I did, however, also add a sniper drone team for more ap3 fun and another markerlight. I'm actually loving the way this army came together and think it would be super intimidating to field.

Coming soon... pics of the cadre.

Normally I would shun a man for taking etherials, but it is giving you access to a unit of honor guard, which aren't shabby.

I like everything, but some of the battlesuits.

On battlesuits:

I like keeping all the configurations in a unit the same. These are the only configurations I would suggest to use:
PR/MP/MT
PR/FB/MT
BC/Fl/MT
TL BC w/ ???
TL FB w/ ???

and then any combination of AFB/CIB/FL/BC would be acceptable.

Well my reason for my the configurations is as this.

If you're tau and you actually get close enough to a vehicle to the point where a fusion blaster would be effective then you're screwed.

If you need a flamer with 7 filled troops choices worth of firepower for anti-horde, then you're screwed.

Missile pods provide great long range support against both tougher creatures like TMC's and are also great at popping transports while the broadsides do the real vehicle killing.

Plasma while short ranged is one of the only ways for tau to efficiently kill terminators, TMC's, and blood angels. Mixed with a commander's cyclic ion blaster you could easily wipe out an entire terminator squad or trygon in one round of shooting. The reason I use the commander as such is attached to the 3 man squad with no drones. I like to split them up and use them as a screen for the commander and his drones moving the commander to their side during shooting and then behind them with the 6" assault move. He is then free to fall back further and support another crisis team using the same strategy while the 3 crisis suits that would more than likely die in the following turns close combat sacrifice themselves so that the commander might kill more FNP badies..

I also used to use this "meatshield runaway" strategy with the ethereal and abandon the bodyguard before they are assaulted but this was FAQ'd. I can still do it with the commander though.

Burst cannons while not the best choice for a battlesuit atleast give it some ranged cheap firepower and anti-horde and I much prefer it over a flamer given the taus very poor close combat ability.


Oh and I do agree normally using an ethereal is a terrible idea, however, with this many firewarriors the ability to reroll morale is nothing to shake a stick at. For instance I now have the ability to make a failed roll in the shooting phase for 25% casualities a hopeful pass. And in melee I can reroll to fail my tests and fallback because nothing sucks like losing to a squad of vanguard veterans or genestealers in your own assault phase and having them come destroy even more of your army the next turn. Even if you cant outrun them its better to lose one squad of firewarriors to a sweeping advance and blow the hell out of whatever it was with backup guns than to lose 2 or more squads and kill nothing.

Ok, makes sense. Do you follow the same reasoning with the MP/BC combination as with the PR/CIB? You didn't really talk about the CIB at all.

I would be interested to see how this army list fares in games. If you play this list the next weeks, could you maybe post a short batrep on Dakka? I like the idea of Tau being a bit more swarmy, guardsfish-like, but I'm not really sure if the firewarriors are up to the task.

dont use the railrifles on the pathfinders, they are there to provide markerlights, you need moar marketlights

The Bringer wrote:Ok, makes sense. Do you follow the same reasoning with the MP/BC combination as with the PR/CIB? You didn't really talk about the CIB at all.

Well I talked about how the commander loves that gun as its ap 1 on a roll of 6 to damage and with 5 shots hitting on 2's one of them is bound to be a 6.

Witzkatz wrote:I would be interested to see how this army list fares in games. If you play this list the next weeks, could you maybe post a short batrep on Dakka? I like the idea of Tau being a bit more swarmy, guardsfish-like, but I'm not really sure if the firewarriors are up to the task.

I should be having a game this Wednesday with either a tyranid, blood angel or mech eldar player, possibly even chaos. I'll bust out the camcorder just for you though bud.

SweetLou wrote:dont use the railrifles on the pathfinders, they are there to provide markerlights, you need moar marketlights

Well considering that pathfinders dont have target locks for their markers I see no problem in taking the rifles to help kill marines and TMC's. 3 rail rifle pathfinders + 1 sniper drone squad = 1 dead tyranid mc a turn if all goes well

Ok, I looked for it but didn't see it.

I really will have to disagree with how effective the CIB is. It is meant for weak troops, not Terminators. It has low strength, even though it is rending and has five shots. The chances of you killing a terminator are really low. On average, you will kill .7 with the CIB. The PR will do about 1.4 (In rapid fire range). These estimates are ignoring the invulnerable, which would be harder to mathhammer for the CIB. In actuality, you are looking at two dead terminators a turn with that combo, which isn't incredible, and certainly not a whole unit.

The effectiveness of a Fusion Blaster compared to the CIB against terminators is: .7 as well, but it is cheaper.

EDIT - Whoops... I got my mathhammer wrong on the CIB, it is actually .81 dead termis.

Well I ended up playing a game this week against an ork list. This was my final list

HQ Shas'el
plasma/cyclic ion blaster/targetting array, HW multi-tracker, HW shield drone x2, bonding knife
HQ Ethereal
HQ/Troop Firewarrior Honorguard x11
Elite Crisis Team x3
plasma/missile/multi-tracker x2
leader: bonding knife, plasma/missile/targeting array, HW Multi-tracker, HW shield/gun drone
Elite Crisis Team x3
plasma/missile/multi-tracker x3
Elite Crisis Team x3
burst/missile/multi-tracker x2
leader:knife, plasma/missile/targeting array, HW Multi-tracker, HW gun/shield drone
Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife
Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife
Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife
Troop Firewarrior x12
leader: Bonding knife
Troop Kroot x20 hound x3
Troop Kroot x20 hound x3
Fast Attack Gun Drone squad x8
Fast Attack Gun Drone squad x8
Fast Attack Gun Drone squad x8
Heavy Broadside x2
Targeting Array x2
leader: bonding knife, HW target lock, HW shield drone x2
Heavy Broadside x2
Targeting Array x2
leader: bonding knife, HW target lock, HW shield drone x2

I dont know the specifics of his list but he had 2 full squads of lootas, to squadrons of 4-5 deffcopters, one 8-9 man nob biker squad (with one pain boy and warlord in the squad I think), 1 squad of 5 of stormboys with the special stormboy character, 1 full group of boyz with the hero that gives them all FNP and furious charge. And I think that was pretty much it.

It was a spearhead deployment with the bases mission. I held my kroot and gun drones in reserve and he held his stormboyz in reserve. He got the first turn but I managed to steal the initiative.
I wont go into great detail but basically we ended up having a draw and it was a bloody and gruesome battle. And at the end of the 5th turn I had 2 squads of the gun drones, 2 crisis suits and 1 broadside left and he had his crazy troop hero left along with 3 deffcopters. I would have won but he managed to make my 7 kroot that were left fail their morale check losing control of his objective.

Here's what I liked about my list though:
A: Kroot are simply amazing, they managed to kill both squads of lootas by themselves along with a couple of bikers. They also were essential at capturing the objectives in my enemies deployment zone, something that firewarriors aren't suited for. The only problem they have is not being able to regroup under half strength and their lack of any power weapons or special abilites like fleet or furious charge.
B: Broadsides are particularly well rounded and good at killing bikes and coptas. They are very vulnerable to assault though and I need to make sure to place them far enough from the table edge as I almost lost both squads when my ethereal died, luckily I passed the leadership tests.

Here are some interesting quirps about the army:
A: Having the ethereal die relatively early on in the game actually really helped me by giving all the firewarriors and suits preferred enemy. This was nice on the suits and broadsides but really didnt help much elsewere as even when the firewarriors hit things the fnp of the orks pretty much pwned them all.
B: Broadsides do very well in closecombat, except against power weapons of course.

Here are some overall fails of the army:
A. The ethereal wasted an HQ slot and 50 points, having a squad of firewarriors with bs 4 was nice but was nothing a markerlight couldn't have done. Also its very risky as it can potentially make your entire army fall back.
B. Gun drone squads while cheap are very weak and ineffective. with a bs of 2 they hardly make any shots even being twinlinked.
C. The burst cannon/missile crisis suits were very ineffective at killing anything.
D. Firewarriors are an expensive troops choice overall and while their guns are effective at wounding, their bad ap and low bs make them rather ineffective. They were also very ineffective against the lootas who were far more effective at shooting for the cost.

So while this army had its ups and down I will probably never field anything like it again as firewarriors are just not cost effective and the ethereal is mostly a waste of points. Firewarriors really need some sort of heavy weapon option and tau could really use a codex update imo.

Yes Tau could use a codex update. Considering none of their named heros are worth while, and only one, basic Crisis Battlestuit Commander, is good.

The Etherial may have been a waste of points, but how well did the honor guard do? I've never been able to test their abilities.

Broadsides are pretty good in close combat. What is hilarious is though, is if you give them A.S.S., they can move, fire railguns, and then assault.

I know you were going for the "Swarm" Tau, but something that I find really nice against orks is 2 Hammerheads. Orks have only three different armor saves, if I recollect. 6+,4+, and 2+. Barely any have a 2+. So, the submunission template can flay most anything, meaning nobs, 'ard boys, and any other nasty units that would normally soak a lot of fire.

I mathhammered gun drones, they have a higher chance of hitting than firewarriors, but just barely. Fire warrior is 1/2 to a gun-drones 5/8. If you can jsj effectively with the Gun Drones, I find them very handy. I played a game against orks once where my gundrones just kept popping in and out of terrain, and they didn't get hurt at all.

Its a beautiful thing when an ork player can't hurt you.

EDIT - Also, if you find that your battlesuit weren't doing much, Fl/BC/MT suits are awesome. They are cheap, and they slaughter orks. Also, battlesuits in large quantities are semi-reliable in CC, so after you fire, you normally can assault the few orks left in the unit.

If you find fire warriors did little, and kroot did a lot, just rotate your troops to mainly kroot, and get rid of the honor guard and etherial. Max out on kroot with hounds, and see how that works.