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Hi all,

I'm after some advice or tips for my army, I have tried a few different lists against mainly Orks and Tyranid and never seem to achieve much. My last game was 2k against Orks, Annihilation. I'll list my army and then what I can remember of his. We were both quite new to the game, so please let me know if you think we interpreted any rules poorly, especially those for the Deff-Roller and Custom Force Field as these were the things that changed the game in my eyes.


Librarian in Term Armour, Null Zone, Avenger
Assault Term, 3 x Thunder, 2 x Lightning
Land Raider Redeemer, extra armour, Multi-Melta

Master of the Forge with Conversion Beamer

Dreadnought, MM, CCW w/ HFlamer, Drop Pod
Dreadnought, MM, CCW w/ HFlamer, Drop Pod
Dreadnought, 2 x TL Autocannon
Ironclad, Seismic Hammer w/ HFlamer, CCW w/ HFlamer, Assault Launchers, Drop Pod

LSpeeder, MM, HF
LSpeeder, MM, HF
LSpeeder, MM, HF

Tac (10), Flamer, ML, Rhino
Tac (10), Flamer, ML, Rhino


His List was roughly the following. He had lots of upgrades, armour etc on most models

Group 1
3 Killa-Kans
3 Killa-Kans
Big Mek with Force Field
1 Deff-Dread, 3 CCW
12-man Sluggas

Group 2
12 Nobs
Character with a poison gun
Big Mek with Force Field
Battlewagon with Deff Roller
12-man Sluggas, Truck
12-man Sluggas, Truck
3 Warbikes

Reserve
3 Deff-Koptas


I deployed first and deployed my land-speeders one in each third of my zone, kept my Auto-cannon Dread and Master of the Forge on the left, with the Land-Raider on the right in front of the 2 Rhinos. He then deployed group 1 in front of the Dread and Master of the Forge, and the rest in front of my Land Raider.

I dropped my Pods each side of his Battlewagon and then moved my Speeders and Raider forward. I then shot 5 MM against his Battlewagon, hit and damaged with all 5, then he saved with all 4 using the Force Field from his Big Mek. I then shot the Covnersion beamer, 2 TL Autocannon and a further MM and the front squadron of Killa-Kans, and he saved all but 1 damaged, which was a weapon destroyed. Quite surprised...

His turn, he moved most things forward and then Tank Shocked/Rammed my Land Raider with his Battlewagon and Deff-Roller. He rolled for 6 hits and ended up wrecking it. He then got his 2 squads of Sluggas out of their Truck and assaulted my 2 dreads. He then shot and destroyed 2 of my Land-Speeders.

So, at the end of turn 1, I removed a weapon from a Killa-Kan and he has destroyed a Land Raider and 2 Land-Speeders.

Turn 2 I shot again with everything I had left and he saved all the damage I caused. I probably should have charged the Battlewagon with my Terminators but for some reason I didn't, I can't seem to remember why... My rhinos moved forward but I left the squads in. In Assault he stunned one dread and did nothing to the other, I think I killed 1 model from each squad, forcing a leadership test which he passed. After the game we then realised he rolled a 7, which taking into account his casualty meant he should have lost, so potentially then would have run off the table and my dread could have moved to help the other, but that was my mistake for not picking it up I guess.

His turn 2 he got his Nobs and the poison character out of the Battlewagon and assaulted my Terminators, he moved group 1 forward again. In shooting he missed or didn't damage anything so it was on to assault. I think we each killed one model and he passed leadership, although his Force Field from the Big Mek still on the Battlewagon gave him a 5+ Inv save for a few other wounds.

From now on it carried on like this for a while, I eventually caused his nobs to flee and then I shot them with my disembarked Tac squads, killing a couple more. He destroyed both my dreads, although when 1 exploded it took 5 models with it. My Ironclad arrived and almost wiped out another squad of sluggas with his 2 Flamers. He Tank Shocked my tac squad that failed morale on the last turn and he eventually wiped out the Term Squad/Librarian.

In the end he had 10 Kill points, and I had 3. Mine were for his fleeing Nobs, fleeing Slugga boys and I think the special char attached to the Nobs. His 13 were for 1 LR, 2 LS, 1 Tac, 1 Ass Term, 1 Lib, 1 Master of the Forge, 1 Drop Pod, 2 Dreads.

Any advice would be welcome, especially on whether there are things in my list that are wasted, things you think could help, or even if I'm using units incorrectly.

Thanks in advance.

As far as kill points go, when you say 1 TAC, 1 Asslt terminator, do you mean 1 whole tactical squad or just one marine? Same with the terminator, because if so they dont count as a kill point, it has to be an entire unit that is down.


But unless I missed key points (it is rather early for me lol) it seems like everything went how it should have (other then you missing the Ld roll as you mentioned) As long as your friend was rolling 4+ KFF saves for vehicles and a 5+ on troops that was done correctly. The only sketchy thing really was the Killa kans and the KFF save they get. Sqaudrons (IE him having 3 kans) use the KFF rules a little differently depending on where the 6 inch line is drawn for the KFF.

Sounds like you need to tweek your SM list better. I know flamers really can kick some ass on Orks, but always taking MM HF on the LS isnt really a good idea. Why? Because speeders are really easy for Orks to take out. Assault cannons, or HB would be better, simply because the range they get. Or Ive had my teeth kicked in a few times by the typhoon variant. All those friggin missiles just hurt things.

The dreds with MM? They eat vehicles just as easy with the DCCW, so rather then have a 1 shot gun, you should swap that out for something more anti Ork. Also if you assault Orks with the dreds, your going first, and a DCCW against Nobs = ID to the nobs, no matter how tough they are in CC. I think the flamers on your dreds was a good idea, simply because dreds are normally fine being that close to the action to use them.

Honestly it looks like you tooled your list to be awesome against say, other MEQs and vehicles. Thats fine and dandy for them, but against Orks the low amount of bullets in the air, and misuse of flame weapons really hurts a SM player like it did to you. When I first got into Orks, my brother was so used to tooling his army up for taking on MEQs that he kept doing that. And it really hurt his game because he just couldnt take on that many Orks. So play around with your list, take more missile launchers or higher shot weapons. Its far to easy to take out Ork boyz, and with dreds assaulting nobs you can KO nobs, and nobs are the bread and butter of Orks. Good luck next time and let us know ho0w it went

That kff is an absolute killer man, and it seems like its all orcs take these bloody days. If you get any ideas let me know cos I struggle with the buggers as well. Wolves can spam ml enough to get some through, hut vanilla seem to really struggle getting enough firepower down to make them fail those goddamn 4+ saves!

Well the easiest trick is CC. We dont get a cover save in CC. But as far as shooting goes, your just going to have to deal with statistically loosing half your shots to it. Its a target saturation thing. If you really want that BW to go down, then focus on it, dont shoot this unit there, and that unit over there, hit that damn wagon until you either run out of ammo, or it blows up.

And as I mentioned assaulting with Dreds can be a nice answer, specially to nobs. I think its more effective against nobs personally, those guys can cost a serious amount of points and losing 4 in one assault can REALLY hurt that mob.

Come to think of it, I think he was taking KFF saves in CC, D'oh. If he wasn't I don't know where he was getting a 4+ save against my LC and TH Terminators.

So, next time I think I will focus my Dreads on his Battlewagon and Nobs, then use my Terminators to kill some Sluggas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What do you think about this list?

Librarian with Term Armour (Null Zone, Avenger)
Term Assault Squad, 3 TH, 2 LC
Land Raider Redeemer, Extra Armour, Multi-Melta

Ironclad, Seismic Hammer w/ HFlamer, CCW w/ HFlamer, Assault Launchers, Drop Pod
Ironclad, Seismic Hammer w/ HFlamer, CCW w/ HFlamer, Assault Launchers, Drop Pod

Tac (10), Flamer, ML, Combi-Flamer, Razor w/ Hunter-Killer
Tac (10), Flamer, ML, Combi-Flamer, Razor w/ Hunter-Killer

LS, HF, Typhoon
LS, HF, Typhoon
LS, HF, Typhoon

Dev (10), 4 x ML, Drop Pod

The reason I've given the Devestator squad a Drop Pod is so the 2 Ironclads come in 1st turn, and I'll deploy the Devestators without their Drop Pod. It could then come in late game.

This gives me a more focused CC orientation with 2 Ironclads and the Terminators, the Tac squads should be better up close with the Orks, and adding the Typhoon, Devestator and Razorback with Hunter-Killer should give me some nice ML action.

Looks like a decent list there. Give it a couple games and see how it works for you.


Also if he was taking cover saves in CC then you guys were doing it wrong. What of his was taking saves against your termies? If it was nobs, then most likely he had cybork bodies on his nobs, which if he had a painboy (I know he did because you mentioned a poisoned attack) he can get the cyborks and those allow a 5+inv save.


Dreds will ruin a battlewagon for sure. Remember CC attacks are taken on the rear of a vehicle, you know, right where the BW is a joke

Good luck man

A few quick suggestions.

Even against orks, the LS Typhoon is pretty much a waste of points for me. Three of them won't spam enough missiles to break the KFF's reliably and are way to expensive. I would replace them with one of the bike units. MM Attach Bikes might work in this case, but they would be useless against the hordes. A unit of scout bikers with good scout moves may very well wreck the battle wagon in a first turn assault without even having to worry about the KFF. Even if they don't it would still be first turn backup for your Ironclads.

If you want, try running some drop podded sternguard. If the DP lands close enough to the battle wagon or killa kans, then even a KFF won't stop 10 combimeltas.

Lastly, I would change out the librarian with a termy chaplain. Since you are running in the land raider, you are pretty much assured the first charge. The chaplian letting you reroll to-hit on that charge is priceless.