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Alright, so I've been looking at my available units and have come up with two lists. I will append a general idea of how I'll play each list after all the units are out there. As a side note, I will normally play with a fair number of fortification and area terrain.

I will list a count of the models, wounds, and the average lifespan against bolters each force has. Yes, I realize there are better weapons for attacking, and worse, but I figure bolters are a rough average (and see the heaviest use).

Note: All Fire Warriors have pulse rifles.

List 1: 1000 Points, 42 infantry models, 2 vehicles, 45 wounds (With an average lifespan of 285.75 (or 330.75 if the kroot stay in woods) bs4 s4 shots).

HQ:
Shas’el w/ Plasma Rifle, Flamer, Targeting Array, Shield Drone, HW Multi-tracker, and Stimulant Injector = 114

Elite:
Shas’vre Battlesuit w/ TL Fusion Blasters, Targeting Array, Bonding Knife, Iridium Armor, 2 shield Drones = 118
Stealth Suit w/ Targeting Array x 3; Team Leader w/ Fusion Blaster and Bonding Knife = 132

Troops:
Kroot Basic x 10= 70 Points.
Fire Warrior x 6; Leader w/ Bonding Knife = 75.
Fire Warrior x 10; Leader w/ Bonding Knife = 115.

Fast Attack:
Pathfinder x 8 (Shas’ui w/ bonding knife) + Devilfish w/Disruption Pods, Multitracker= 206

Heavy Support:
Hammerhead w/ Railgun, 2 Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Disruption Pods, Target Lock = 170

While I will note that I realize that stealth suits are fairly bad, I had difficulty coming up with a good 1k point list with pathfinders/devilfish and no stealth suits.

This army will be played very offensively. The TL Fusion Blaster suit will be deepstriked in, to pose a large threat to any vehicles in range (I have played this suit a couple times, in proxy games and a real game, and it has served me well, and I am very good at judging distances for the 6") and draw fire (with 4 wounds with 2+ saves, he will die, on average, after 72 bs4 bolter shots). The Shas'el will be played on the field from turn one, and will harass infantry and lure them away from softer targets. Stealth suits will infiltrate in, and do a combination of infantry harassment and scaring vehicles into the open. Kroot will be held in reserves, and then outflank in to contest (or hold)objectives (hopefully) last minute, if not, they'll just move around either side of distracted targets and move to contest objectives late in the game. One fire warrior team will sit on an objective, while the larger one either goes for a 'more contested' objective, or will act as a mobile firing base. The pathfinders will take a devilfish via scout move to a nice fortification, and sit there the entire game lighting peeps up while having a 3+ cover save. The hammerhead will also be played offensively, provided it can do so without significant danger.

List 2: 1000 points, 41 models, 39 infantry, 2 Skimmers, 43 wounds (With an average lifespan of 274.5 (or 337.5 if the kroot stay in woods) bs4 s4 shots).

HQ:
Shas’o w/ Plasma Rifle, TL Flamer, Shield Drone, HW Multi-Tracker, and Stimulant Injector = 131

Elite:
Shas’vre Battlesuit w/ TL Fusion Blasters, Targeting Array, Bonding Knife, Iridium Armor, 2 shield Drones = 118

Troops:
Kroot x 12 + Hound x 2 = 96
Fire Warrior x 9; Leader w/ Markerlight, Bonding Knife, Multi-tracker, Marker Drone = 150.
Fire Warrior x 9; Leader w/ Markerlight, Bonding Knife, Multi-tracker, Marker Drone = 150.

Heavy Support:
Hammerhead w/ Railgun, 2 Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Disruption Pods, Sensor Spines, Target Lock = 180.
Hammerhead w/ Railgun, 2 Burst Cannons, Multi-tracker, Disruption Pods, Sensor Spines = 175.

This time the Shas'o will be played in tandem with the Crisis suit (though depending on the board depends on whether or not the latter will be deepstriked in) in an effort to provide an extremely tantalizing target, that is also very, very deadly, and survivable (On average, 153 bolter rounds would need to be fired to take the two + drones out) target. Kroot will likely spend most of this game chilling in some woods, provided such a feature is fairly centralized. The Fire warriors will more or less team up to either hold one objective (one providing the other supporting fire) or to assist each other in holding two seperate, somewhat closely placed objectives; markerlights are present for the sake of either supporting each other, or for supporting hammerheads (One idea I have floating around my head is to use the marker drone to potentially mark a unit, and then use the increased BS to beef up it's own squad and hopefully get the leader's markerlight on too, and then the other squad can use that counter, and get a better chance of getting their own drone's 'light on, before doing their own firing). The hammerhead with a target lock will be played offensively, moving through area terrain and the like (hence the purpose of sensor spines) to keep anything trying to assault it at bay, while laying down a heavy load of fire. The other hammerhead will lurk towards the back, probably near'ish to the fire warriors, blasting away, and leading any scary things away into terrain or through cover (hence sensor spines once more, for safe stops in terrain, and even plopping it on top of impassable terrain in safety).

Just another note: I hold to the opinion that something needs to live in order to shoot, which is why there are a fair number of defensive upgrades. I use almost all my models between these two lists (minus three more stealth suits and a shaper), two of the pathfinders are mag'd to play as either pathfinders or fire warriors, and six of the pathfinders are just converted fire warriors. I simply swap the guns on a hammerhead to get a devilfish. I will likely buy more units as I get more funds available, but for the time being I've run out of my 'fun' funds.

Comments and criticism?

I worry about the survivability of your Fire Warriors. I used to run troops similar to what you have, and found that at least one squad of fire warriors was targeted and destroyed quickly every game I played. If you're going to keep the pathfinders close to their own devilfish, I'd suggest getting another one to cart the mobile fire warriors around. Also, with your second list, I'd suggest dropping one of the hammerheads for a Broadside team. That way, you can use their railguns to take out any vehicles/monstrous creatures that you need to, and are able to use the submunition on the hammerhead for crowd control.

Hope this helps

On the first list:

I don't really like your crisis battlesuits. I like them to be minimal and simple. The plasma rifle and flamer don't match at all... I would really suggest revising that. I would give your commander a TL Fusion Blaster, and your other Crisis Battlesuit a TL Flamer... and just fill in the hard-point with whatever you care to.

Stealth suits can go both ways. Some people seem to have success with them, some don't. If you find that they aren't pulling there points in games most of the time, just don't take them ever again.

On the second list:

Once again, I don't like your configurations, though they aren't as bad as I've seen some other people do theirs. Also, Multi-Trackers only let you fire two non-twinlinked systems, if one is TL, it won't work.

Sensor spines also are horrible. They will rarely do anything for you, DPs are way better, and you already have them on your Hammerheads!

With the extra points you have in both lists, I would then get extra Firewarriors for both.

chupathingy wrote:I worry about the survivability of your Fire Warriors. I used to run troops similar to what you have, and found that at least one squad of fire warriors was targeted and destroyed quickly every game I played. If you're going to keep the pathfinders close to their own devilfish, I'd suggest getting another one to cart the mobile fire warriors around. Also, with your second list, I'd suggest dropping one of the hammerheads for a Broadside team. That way, you can use their railguns to take out any vehicles/monstrous creatures that you need to, and are able to use the submunition on the hammerhead for crowd control.

Hope this helps

If I had broadsides, I would definitely get some in (they are next on my list for purchases however). The pathfinder's 'fish won't be sticking near them, and, when needed, it will be used to cart around a squad (most likely the mobile firing base), forgot to mention that, sorry.

The Bringer wrote:On the first list:

I don't really like your crisis battlesuits. I like them to be minimal and simple. The plasma rifle and flamer don't match at all... I would really suggest revising that. I would give your commander a TL Fusion Blaster, and your other Crisis Battlesuit a TL Flamer... and just fill in the hard-point with whatever you care to.

Stealth suits can go both ways. Some people seem to have success with them, some don't. If you find that they aren't pulling there points in games most of the time, just don't take them ever again.

On the second list:

Once again, I don't like your configurations, though they aren't as bad as I've seen some other people do theirs. Also, Multi-Trackers only let you fire two non-twinlinked systems, if one is TL, it won't work.

Sensor spines also are horrible. They will rarely do anything for you, DPs are way better, and you already have them on your Hammerheads!

With the extra points you have in both lists, I would then get extra Firewarriors for both.

While I have seen the statement about the twin-linked before, I feel that it is not RaI, otherwise, due to the exact same wording, TL systems could only be fired if a multi-tracker is present, which would then force every broadside in existence to get one, or else be unable to fire anything except the SMS, hell, I'd need a multi-tracker just for my battlesuit with TL fusion blasters (Whom I'm considering changing to a shas'el and dropping the targeting array).

In regards to the sensor spines, I've looked at them, and my main purpose for getting them is to make it so that the hammerheads don't need to take terrain tests. The idea behind them is that I'll lead any unit attempting to get close to my hammerheads into terrain, and keep them there (I am likely to see terminators and 'nids of all shapes and sizes that will be trying to blow my tanks up), or potentially even (if the board has a spot for it) plopping it down on some impassable terrain. I know I have one piece of terrain that, if I use it properly, can allow line of sight to most, if not all, of the board (a decent sized plateau-like feature) and I could see the potential for jumping it up there to shoot at distant/hidden targets, and jumping it down and out of sight should it be endangered, and I'd imagine that, with the right positioning of the base, even a large number of preset boards would have terrain features that could provide the same use. However, I have not had the chance to actually test such a strategy, and if anyone has any input on the effectiveness of such a strategy, it would be much appreciated.

In regards to the suit configurations, what are your recommendations? I've been tossing around ideas about switching the Shas'o (or shas'el with TA in list 1) to a fusion blaster/flamer(TL flamer in list 2) set up. While I don't like dropping as many points as I am into shield drones, I don't want a krak missile, or lascannon, bursting out to ID my suits, and I feel my TL FB suit definitely needs the survivability since he is going to be a fire magnet (and doubling his, and his drones, armor save, and consequently survivability, for 20 points seemed like a decent deal. Yeah, it's not quite a 100% increase when ap1/2 weps are taken into account, but it is still about a 95% increase in life expectancy, potentially more if ap3 are taken into account).

Not bad, i'd try and get atleast 3 squads of fire warriors though.

Farmer wrote:Not bad, i'd try and get atleast 3 squads of fire warriors though.

for a 1000 point game I see no reason to have 4 troop choices.
These aren't Orks. There are much better things to field than Firewarriors in the Tau codex.
He has 2 Firewarriors and some Kroot, which to me seems plenty for only 1k.

Erinsoriac wrote:
While I have seen the statement about the twin-linked before, I feel that it is not RaI, otherwise, due to the exact same wording, TL systems could only be fired if a multi-tracker is present, which would then force every broadside in existence to get one, or else be unable to fire anything except the SMS, hell, I'd need a multi-tracker just for my battlesuit with TL fusion blasters (Whom I'm considering changing to a shas'el and dropping the targeting array).

RAW was determined that you don't need a multi-tracker to fire a TL weapon system.

Erinsoriac wrote:
In regards to the sensor spines, I've looked at them, and my main purpose for getting them is to make it so that the hammerheads don't need to take terrain tests. The idea behind them is that I'll lead any unit attempting to get close to my hammerheads into terrain, and keep them there (I am likely to see terminators and 'nids of all shapes and sizes that will be trying to blow my tanks up), or potentially even (if the board has a spot for it) plopping it down on some impassable terrain. I know I have one piece of terrain that, if I use it properly, can allow line of sight to most, if not all, of the board (a decent sized plateau-like feature) and I could see the potential for jumping it up there to shoot at distant/hidden targets, and jumping it down and out of sight should it be endangered, and I'd imagine that, with the right positioning of the base, even a large number of preset boards would have terrain features that could provide the same use. However, I have not had the chance to actually test such a strategy, and if anyone has any input on the effectiveness of such a strategy, it would be much appreciated.

If I remember correctly, you would only have to worry about finishing you move in impassible, dangerous, or difficult terrain... so it wouldn't come into effect too often.

Erinsoriac wrote:
In regards to the suit configurations, what are your recommendations? I've been tossing around ideas about switching the Shas'o (or shas'el with TA in list 1) to a fusion blaster/flamer(TL flamer in list 2) set up. While I don't like dropping as many points as I am into shield drones, I don't want a krak missile, or lascannon, bursting out to ID my suits, and I feel my TL FB suit definitely needs the survivability since he is going to be a fire magnet (and doubling his, and his drones, armor save, and consequently survivability, for 20 points seemed like a decent deal. Yeah, it's not quite a 100% increase when ap1/2 weps are taken into account, but it is still about a 95% increase in life expectancy, potentially more if ap3 are taken into account).

For battlesuits I recommend:

PR/MP/MT
PR/FB/MT
BC/Fl/MT
TL FL w/???
TL FB w/???


Well, if I TL a weapon system on my commander, which I only ever do with Flamers and Fusion Blasters, I would then give him Iridium armor to soak up all that dangerous AP 3 Weaponry. Then you could get a couple of shield drones if you were really worried, and if you just wanted an absolute beast of a commander, you could give him a stim. injector. Depending on your spare points, you may just want to get shield drones right away.

The Bringer wrote:

RAW was determined that you don't need a multi-tracker to fire a TL weapon system.

If I remember correctly, you would only have to worry about finishing you move in impassible, dangerous, or difficult terrain... so it wouldn't come into effect too often.

For battlesuits I recommend:

PR/MP/MT
PR/FB/MT
BC/Fl/MT
TL FL w/???
TL FB w/???


Well, if I TL a weapon system on my commander, which I only ever do with Flamers and Fusion Blasters, I would then give him Iridium armor to soak up all that dangerous AP 3 Weaponry. Then you could get a couple of shield drones if you were really worried, and if you just wanted an absolute beast of a commander, you could give him a stim. injector. Depending on your spare points, you may just want to get shield drones right away.

In regards to the moving around impassable, dangerous, and difficult terrain, it is a large part of the reason I have them. I could, theoretically, move from terrain piece to terrain piece, and anything that is trying to catch me will have to, ideally, take two terrain tests (potentially even three if they're fleet) a turn, one for moving, and one for assaulting. Obviously I am no master on the subject, but it seems like it could be a valid strategy, especially when dealing with melee armies. Though the validity of this may very well belong in the tactics section.

In regards to TL and multi-tracker, I just did a quick bit of research, and looked at the codex again. I've come to the conclusion that TL weapons fire as a single system for Tau. While it has been argued that they count as two weapon systems when fired, but that the general rules allows for one (in which twinlinked counts as one) allows TL to be fired without a MT, but still not be fired with another weapon if an MT is included, this is false, as the codex takes precedent, which would make TL count as two, and thus overwrite the rule in the rulebook that twinlinked counts as one. Hence, it must be assumed that TL weapons fire as a single weapons system.

Taking that thought into consideration, FB/TL FL Shas'o in the second list mayhaps? Could easily pop a transport, and then burn the contents, or could approach a weak/horde group with an IC, burn the horde, and get a decent chance at forcing the FB wound onto the commander, or at least making him that much more vulnerable to a railgun. Though I am considering the plasma rifle still, since it is most effective under 12", and well, flamers are 12" max range, and it gives me one more shot as I approach, though he'd lose the ability to ID most peeps.

Otherwise, my suits seem to more or less match your thought process (once I decide what to do with the Shas'o of course), in regards to the iridium armour/stim pack (granted, they are seperated to different guys, mainly since if something is punching through the 2+ save with ease enough to worry me about his survival until he can do what he was supposed to, the stim pack isn't going to be saving him).

Changes to list that I've been convinced to do so far:
List 1 HQ: Shas'el w/ FB, FL, Targeting Array, Shield Drone, HW MT, and Stim=106
HQ2: Shas'el w/ TL FB, 2 Shield Drones, Bonding Knife, Iridium Armor=123
List 2 HQ: Shas'o w/ FB, TL FL, Shield Drone, HW MT, and Stim = 123
HQ2: Shas'el w/ TL FB, 2 Shield Drones, Bonding Knife, Iridium Armor=123
Basically, I swapped a PR for a FB, and got my crisis suit one more wound and one more Ld.

Good news is that I may end up in possession of *a* broadside shortly, and then I can give all sorts of new lists for people to rip apart! (Though a surprisingly low amount of ripping seems to have been done to this one, that isn't focused on things I completely expected to be brought up, namely the MT and its use with TL systems, and the sensor spines)