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Ok first let me start off by saying that this is not a flaming post that is meant to attack the units I'm about to mention so please keep it civil.

Eldar Phoenix lords. When I look at them in the Codex they seem pretty cool. They were the first units with EW, they were some of the first units (aside from DE) to have a WS higher than 6, and they are the only Eldar unit to have a 2+ save. Yet you never see them in an Eldar army. Why is that?

Now I myself play Eldar, very well actually. Currently I run a Mech Eldar list and for my HQ's I use Eldrad and the Avatar, although soon I am going to replace the Avatar with Yriel. He's the same points but seems much much better for what he does. Now I took a look at the Eldar HQ choices and aside from Eldrad, the Avatar, Yriel, and the normal Farseer and Autarch HQ choices I can't see why you would choose any of the Phoenix Lords. Their overpriced for what they do, they take up an HQ choice (which as previously stated has much better choices), and they have to be attached to a squad of the same Aspect. I don't think they are at all useful in an Eldar army.

The only reason I could see to take Phoenix Lords would be 1. If they weren't HQ choices and instead were "Hero" choices with maybe 1 less wound and no EW like Lemartes, Marbo, etc, 2. If they were less points period, 3. If they didn't have to be attached to a squad of the same aspect (Example: I would love to put Kharandras in a DA squad just to add some nasty CC), or 4. If they had a better statline, like maybe 4 wounds instead of 3, and maybe some sort of rending 6 insta kill (maybe, maybe not I just thought of this because they suck when they go up against other HQ choices that ignore armor saves because all but 1 of them doesn't have an Invulnerable save), and an Invulnerable save (as I said before). All this or a combination of this would make them worth taking but right now they just don't seem that good which is a shame when you look at their fluff and see that they are the greatest warriors the Eldar has to offer.

So I ask why don't some of you guys take them, or if you do, how do you use them effectively, and do you think they make up their points?

Maugan Ra's not too bad. Goes great with Pathfinders and Harlies. Jain Zaar's pretty swell too.

They are fluffy. I think that is their entire goal. Asurmen is also not too bad since gets an invul save.

The phoenix lords do allow you to buff an aspect squad by one more member. Take DA's for example you get 11 if you add Asurmen, and he IS a Dire Avenger, not that it matters. All this means is that there are a few more shots in your bladestorm. Justified points spent? I don't think so.

It's also not that they are bad, it's just that you can get alot of what they do via exarchs, and Farseer/Autarch/Avatar/Yriel/Eldrad are just that good.

I think you've hit exactly why they aren't used.

They seem really cool and effective, but they simply aren't worth their points. They can be better than an Avatar, an Autarch, or Yriel, but they simply aren't so much better than their point costs should make them.

Baharoth and Kahrandras are rather worthless anyway. They're too weak to run alone, and don't have synergy with anything else you'd be running. Fuegan and Maugen Ra can be okay, but even they aren't great. Currently, the only ones I'd consider running are Jain Zar and Asurman. They can fit in with a decent Eldar list rather well, but I'd rather run something else and use the points elsewhere.

I personally like Maugen Ra his fluff is sweet (he took down a tendril from a tyranid hive fleet on his own) and he is good. He can fire 36" at s6 ap5 assault 4 pinning, and he can either use fast shot to fire another or crackshot to re-roll failed wounds I believe. Also only him and Jain zar have s6 in cc due to thier executioners. My only complaint's are that they have only 4t for being the greatest warriors in Eldar history thats pretty weaksauce and that they can't cap objectives. Other than that my Maugen Ra usually pays for himself and thensome during games I usually field him like one would with reapers. He has been the heaviest contributor to casualties based on his size. He is one model and does the work of 6-10 over the course of a game.

Phoenix lords are expensive ... I will use Maugen Ra because he can and has made his points back game after game.

Problems with all of them ... they do a much better job when they aren't with their aspect. Only one of them has an inv. They all break in around 200pts.

Four that can be used are Kahrandras, Fuegan, Jain Zar and Maugan Ra. Kahrandras and Fugan are tank killers they'll chew through anything; they're not great at shooting and without an inv not really safe in CC. Jain Zar add to a unit is a unit that can now win CC (make sure the unit charges any Power weapons so they can be used on her). BS7, Maugan Ra has a cover ignoring assault cannon with 36" range and can reroll failed wounds popping smoke does nothing.

Kahrandras all the way!

The number of attacks this beast gets is great.

I too thought about getting him but decided on Maugen Ra before I calculated Kahrandras cc attacks+the unit of scorpions+exarch that hes with. So many dice and power weapons.

The problem with Maugen Ra is that he is basically just a walking Scatter Laser with AP5, pinning and rending. For 195 points, I'd expect much more out of him.

He also doesn't work well with Dark Reapers. Maugen wants to be shooting at Light Vehicles where as Reapers want to be shooting at MeQ. Maugen is also able to move and fire, where as the Reapers need to be totally static. They just don't work well in the same squad.

All of the Phoenix Lords suffer from this inherit problem. They either have different targets than the rest of their aspect, or suffer from different movement rates (Kahrandras). Fuegan gets the added bonus of being completely overkill with a squad of Fire Dragons. Some of them would work well in other aspect squads, but they aren't allowed to do that, for some stupid reason.

And, Crack Shot lets you ignore cover as well as re-rolling failed wounds. It is pretty awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Farmer wrote: Kahrandras all the way!

The number of attacks this beast gets is great.

Kahrandras looks really sweet, but he falls apart in actual gameplay. IMO, he's possibly the worst PL.

He gets fleet whereas the other Scorpions don't, so you often times have to have him charge out in front of them to get into CC a turn earlier. But, when he's in CC by himself, he gets killed before he can do anything because of his I1. So, you have to ignore his fleet ability and keep him with the rest of the Scorpions. But, Scorpions rely on winning CC by having a high I. You want to get all of your attacks in and maximize damage before your enemy has a chance to strike back. Kahrandras, ultimately, doesn't help this goal and it isn't worth spending 200pts for him in a sub-optimum roll.