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Alright, this is another go at making an Eldar army list. I'm a new player, and I've been going at it for awhile. This is going to have to be a fairly balanced list, because my opponents are mostly going to be Space Marines, Chaos, Orks, and IG. Critiques would be great please. Also, where should I put the Farseer?

Farseer (90)
Runes of Witnessing, Doom

Fire Dragons (100) in Falcon
5 Fire Dragons, Exarch with Firepike

Dire Avengers (152) in Wave Serpent
10 Dire Avengers, Exarch with two Shuriken Catapults and Bladestorm

Storm Guardians (92) in Wave Serpent
10 Storm Guardians, 2 Flamers

Falcon (185)
Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, Holo-fields, Spirit Stones

Wave Serpent (115)
Twin-Linked Scatter Lasers

Wave Serpent (115)
Twin-Linked Scatter Lasers

Total: 849 points.

Couple quick pointers:
- Falcon is a bad choice for Fire Dragons, they are front line suiciders in the 5 man configuration and a Falcon should be used as a long range gunboat.
- Falcon config is sub-optimal. To fire all those guns you'll have to move at a max of 6", so now you have a 48", 36" and 24" gun moving at 6" so it'll be easy to out range. Go with EML or BL and stay at max range with preferable 5 DA inside.
- Farseer goes with Bladestorm DA. Try to find point for Runes of Warding.
- You have a heavy lack of anti-medium/heavy tanks. Multiple 12+ armors will give you heartache.
- If you're doing storm guardians you'll need the Warlock with Destructor. The 3 flamers is what makes that combo harsh.
- Fire Dragon exarch with Fire Pike is not worth it's points.

As BlueDagger said, you should switch Scatterlaser + Shuricannon to EML, drop the Exarch and add a Destructor Warlock to a Storm Guardian squad. Believe me, that squad will benefit a lot more from a heavy flamer than Fire Dragons will from a very very expensive almost-multimelta

Blue dagger is spot on. However I would't worry too much about multiple heavy tanks in 850 point games. As long as you can get those scatters into side or rear armor you'll be fine. Once you get to 1K+ you should bring more anti heavy tank.

Well, I'd consider the following list (roughly):

Doomseer
2x 10 bladestorming Dire Avengers in Serpents
1x 5 Fire Dragons in Serpent.

Isn't that what he's doing? Apart from having Storm Guardians and not 2nd Avenger squad. And since I've started using Storms, I've found they mesh really well with the Avengers. And their killing potential vs 5+ save enemies(Boyz, Gaunts, Guardsmen, Guardian Defenders...) in cover is pretty ace.

Bladestorming Dire Avengers are much better than poets and philosophers in uniforms.
Their guns have a larger range and so are eventually save from return fire and charge.

BlueDagger hit things spot on.

At this point limit, you're going to be very limited in what you can squeeze in. I'd cut the Falcon entirely to give the FD squad a WS, but then you'll be very vulnerable to massed light vehicles.

I guess my main point of advice is to convince your friends to play 1000 or 1500 pt games

Also, I'll go ahead and disagree with wuestenfux. DA squads can be absolutely devastating, but the triple flame threat of Storm Guardians can be more effective in plenty of situations.

Eh the DA bladestorm vs. Storm Guardians has been debated to death. Both shine in different scenarios, though I don't care to play either lol... mass infantry is what Prisms and Deathspinner are for lol.

I will point out that DA's range only gives them the benefit of not being charged by the shot at unit, if they are at max range. They will still be fired upon since move + rapid fire = 18".

I will point out that DA's range only gives them the benefit of not being charged by the shot at unit, if they are at max range. They will still be fired upon since move + rapid fire = 18".

This is a major point.
Good placement of the disembarking Dire Avengers can minimize return fire and prevent charge.

wuestenfux wrote:

I will point out that DA's range only gives them the benefit of not being charged by the shot at unit, if they are at max range. They will still be fired upon since move + rapid fire = 18".

This is a major point.
Good placement of the disembarking Dire Avengers can minimize return fire and prevent charge.

Same goes for any unit lol. In the eternal DA vs Storms debate it all comes down to enemy placement and the situation, 6" range won't really make or break the situation since the goal here is kill it dead before it can kill you. If it isn't dead the unit didn't really do it's job in the first place.

Okay guys, here's the new list I've drawn up. Thanks for all the comments! I've decided to go for a DA squad and a Flamer Guardian squad, so I can playtest with both and have an opportunity to adapt a bit. The Fire Dragon squad is the size it is because in the last few games drop pod dreads and DS termies have screwed me pretty bad.

Farseer (93)
Singing Spear, Runes of Witnessing, Doom

Fire Dragons (128) in Wave Serpent
8 Fire Dragons

Dire Avengers (92) in Falcon
5 Dire Avengers, Exarch with 2 Shuriken Catapults and Bladestorm.

Storm Guardians (127) in Wave Serpent
10 Storm Guardians, 2 Flamers, Warlock with Destructor

Falcon (160)
Bright Lance, Holofields

Wave Serpent (125)
TL Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon

Wave Serpent (125)
TL Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon

Total: 850

EDIT: I'm also going to paint the (eventual) army in a Yme-Loc theme, if anyone's interested.

Dire Avenger Exarchs are force multipliers. If there are no forces to multiply, then they are a colossal waste of points. Bladestorm adds 5 shots to your squad for 15 points, whereas in a 10 man squad it'll add 10 shots. Only take bladestorm if you are running at least 8 members. Falcon Avengers should be kept as cheap as possible. Put the points elsewhere.

The Fire Dragon squad is far to big, at the end of the day, 3 more members won't make them survive any longer in all honesty. they are still t3 4+ save models. they really are drop and pop. They have enough power to pop pretty much anything for 80 points, any more than that and you are flushing points down the proverbial toilet.

I'd drop the singing spear on the farseer since the warlock doesn't have one. An extra s9 attack at I5 can really save the day if you find yourself engaged with a walker.

If you want to run a singing spear, I'd take another one on the warlock, that way you have 2 s9 shots to toss at a tank instead of one, although shooting at tanks leaves your stormies in the open, and not shooting at infantry, thier perfered target.

You might consider switching to a guide seer, and leaving him in the Faclon. I am quite hesitant to take a falcon without guide, as bs3 is not very impressive, and the re rolls boost accuracy by 50%.

By cutting your falcon down to an eml, dropping your dragons down to 5, and cutting the exarch from your avengers frees up around enough points to take a second farseer. That way you could run one with guide + warding in your falcon, and one with doom in your storm guardian squad. Get the best of both worlds.

There is also the possibility of replacing the Falcon with ScatterLaser WarWalkers. I don't really think you will have an issue with too much armor at 850 points. They can infiltrate and hurt alot of AV10/11/12.

3 WW with Scatters opens up 30 points from your current Falcon configuration.

You can drop the 5 DA's and you will have some more points, since you already have two scoring units.

Just a thought.

You can drop the 5 DA's and you will have some more points, since you already have two scoring units.

The updated list has only two scoring units.

However, the original list could include three War Walkers with 6 shuricannons, 120 pts, instead of the Falcon.

BlueDagger wrote:Couple quick pointers:
- Falcon is a bad choice for Fire Dragons, they are front line suiciders in the 5 man configuration and a Falcon should be used as a long range gunboat.
- Falcon config is sub-optimal. To fire all those guns you'll have to move at a max of 6", so now you have a 48", 36" and 24" gun moving at 6" so it'll be easy to out range. Go with EML or BL and stay at max range with preferable 5 DA inside.
- Farseer goes with Bladestorm DA. Try to find point for Runes of Warding.
- You have a heavy lack of anti-medium/heavy tanks. Multiple 12+ armors will give you heartache.
- If you're doing storm guardians you'll need the Warlock with Destructor. The 3 flamers is what makes that combo harsh.
- Fire Dragon exarch with Fire Pike is not worth it's points.

I don't always agree with Blue Dagger, but 100% echo all this. Solid advice. People shy away from Bright Lances these days due to cost, the (imho) myth that EML is superior in every way, and the fact that melta is so prevalent people aren't taking 13+AV very much. Your list could do with a bright lance or two. Fire dragons are one-use-wonders 90% of the time. Your list will be far inferior to any list with 2+ AV13+ vehicles.

Zain60 wrote:
Your list will be far inferior to any list with 2+ AV13+ vehicles.

To get 2+ AV 13 vehicles at this 850pts you will have made sacrifices in your list already. Find out what was sacrificed and exploit that. It will be very hard to build a decent all-comers list at 850, especially with Eldar. But i still believe Bright Lances are overcosted. Even at the higher point levels.

EML is not better in every way, but is really better in other ways. The blast makes a difference if there are no Armored targets. And against MC's they are the same. So choose your preference. Mine is EML with FD's. No need for Lances then.

The BL is for the possibility my friend will be special and bring a LR crusader

anon/rassilon wrote:The BL is for the possibility my friend will be special and bring a LR crusader

A single one will be quickly and easily handled by your FD squad in turn 2 (turn 1 if your friend is rather reckless with his LR). A single anything (other than a monolith) will be laughed at by your suicide melta squad. It's only multiples you need to worry about.

2 LRs with Tact marines inside...points fit just about right.

Alright... here's version 3 of the army. I kept the DA Exarch because it didn't feel right just having a 5 man DA squad. Maybe it's a fluff thing.

Farseer - Singing Spear, Runes of Witnessing, Doom, Guide (113 points) with DAs
Fire Dragons - 5 Fire Dragons (80 points) with Wave Serpent
DAs - 5 DAs, Exarch with 2 SCs (77 points) with Falcon
Storm Guardians - 10 Storm Guardians, 2 Flamers, Warlock with Destructor and Singing Spear (130 points) with Wave Serpent
Falcon - EML, Holofields (170 points)
Wave Serpent - TL SL (115 points)
Wave Serpent - TL SL (115 points)

Total: 800 points.

Still have 50 points. My biggest worry right now are the deep striking termies and my orky friend's 5-10 Lootas. Any ideas?

Well, first off, I'd give your Farseer Stones. If he's got 2 powers, you want to be using both every turn.

Deep striking termies: It'll be tough to kill them. The Falcon will be your best way to weaken them, but you're going to have to focus on masses fire and trying to get them to fail a 2+. Tough, but not impossible.

Lootas: They actually might not be a big issue. If Orks go first, keep your tanks as hidden as you can. If you go first, you could potentially take them out first turn with your Scatterlaser fire. If they do survive, they'll be weakened and hopefully not get 3 shots each. Then, it's just how well your 4+ cover save works. If your WS survives, use the Storm Guardians to quickly clean them up.

The list you have is pretty good. I am going to make another suggestion as a variant list to throw at your opponents.

Farseer: 2x Runes, Stones, Doom, Fortune
10 DA: Exarch w SS & PW, Defender, Bladestorm
Waveserpent

Storms: 2 Flamers, 1 Destructor
Waveserpent

5 DA
Falcon: Stone, EML, Holo

Yes you are AT-lite with everything really being the Falcon for AT work or the farseer or warlock dicing it up in CC. The fortuned-up DAs with SS and Defend can actually win most HTH situations and can fight enemies off objectives. (Especially since it is an unexpected eldar tactic.) Now this is total waste if your opponents are all packing heavy mech armies always but it is good to surprise them every now and then.

Having 3 troops is also a very good thing as you can objective grab with your whole army.

Me and my friends normally play fantasy-style annihilation (with points)