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Quick question I don't have my rulebook on me and I really must know. Are chainswords power weapons? I play eldar so I'm not familiar with them, I want to know so taht I can decide on whether or not to buy Scorpions or Banshees. Scorpions come equipped with chainswords that give 1+ st and Chainsabres on the exarch which give 2+ cc attacks. I just want to know if those chainblade based weapons are power weapons or not.

No. Chainswords are "normal" close combat weapons.

ok thank you I think with that response I will more than likely go with banshees due to 32 power weapon attacks on the charge. Thanks dude.

Scorpions actually come with a "Scorpion Chainsword" which is different than a "Chainsword".

A chainsword is just a fancy name for a basic, nothing special, ccw.

A Scorpion Chainsword is a special ccw that cannot be used at the same time as another special ccw. It grants the user +1 Str, no power weapon.

Scorpions suck, go with banshees.

Thats what I have decided to do. Go for quality 30-ish attacks over quantity 40-ish atttacks.

*cough* Str 4 with more attacks is way better than Str 3 with power weapon except against termies and FnP, but this is a discussion for tactics or army list *cough*

*cough* Str 3 won't matter cuz nobody is making any armor saves *cough*

*Cough* Str 3 matters since you still need to roll to wound *Cough*

I'm gonna recommend Tylenol for all of you.

My analysis:
Banshees - better against things with 3+ armor, 2+ armor, or FNP. Against MEQ, Orks, and Tyranid Warriors, a charging banshee scores 3*(1/2)*(1/3), or 1/2 unsaved wounds.

Scorpions - better against anything with a 4+ or worse armor save. Charging scorpions score 4*(1/2)*(1/2)*(armor save), or about one wound per model before saves, meaning that against T4 targets, you're as good or better than banshees around 4+ down to no armor saves.

Scorpions are also slightly tougher.

nope

MekanobSamael wrote:I'm gonna recommend Tylenol for all of you.

I get it!


But yes, as far as I am concerned, they are not power weapons.

As an eldar play ... both suck, keep out of close combat ... if you must banshee suck less.

I'm only asking because I had heard something along the lines of either chainswords are power weapons or they get a 2d6 against vehicle armor. Also I gonna be dooming the hell out of anyone I'm attacking so I'm going to roll banshees. Thanks for clarifying the whole chainsword thing everyone.

Kharn's Chainaxe, Gorechild, is a Power Weapon that rolls 2D6 for armor penetration. However it's a weapon unique to him.

There is also the Eviserator, a two handed version of the chainsword that is a power fist with 2D6 penetration as well. Either of those could have been the ones you heard about, as they're pretty close to what you described.

Or a Chain Fist which is exactly the same as an Eviserator rules-wise(but only 1 handed). It is a power Fist with a Chainsword attached(in aesthetics).

Hmm, it's been awhile since I've seen the numbers, but I thought Scorpions w/ Exarch and Claw were better at MEQ killing than Banshees. Even if their Exarch has an Executioner

Crevab wrote:Hmm, it's been awhile since I've seen the numbers, but I thought Scorpions w/ Exarch and Claw were better at MEQ killing than Banshees. Even if their Exarch has an Executioner

The claw strikes last, so it won't protect the Scorpions as well as a Banshee Exarch simply wiping the enemy out before they can attack.

Scorpions are more versatile, so it's generally a draw at MEQ level. When you get stuff with really high armour saves or good armour saves with FNP, then the Banshees are clearly better. Neither are really worth it since they suffer greatly from poor delivery options.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Or a Chain Fist which is exactly the same as an Eviserator rules-wise(but only 1 handed). It is a power Fist with a Chainsword attached(in aesthetics).

yea that sounds about right, I then just assumed that chainswords and chainsword like weapons all had a universal rule along those line. It seemed plausible that the scorpions would have a power weapon seeing as how all the banshee models have power weapons as standard war gear.

Crevab wrote:Hmm, it's been awhile since I've seen the numbers, but I thought Scorpions w/ Exarch and Claw were better at MEQ killing than Banshees. Even if their Exarch has an Executioner

10 Scorpions with Exarch+Claw on the charge vs 10 Vanilla Tactical Marines with Sarge+Power Weapon+Pistol:

9 Scorpions * 4 attacks each * 0.5 hit * 0.5 wound * 0.33 save = 3 dead Marines
6 Marines * 1 attack each * 0.5 hit * 0.67 wound * 0.33 save = 2/3 dead Scorpion
1 Sarge * 3 attacks * 0.5 hit * 0.67 wound * 1 save = 1 dead Scorpion
1 Exarch * 4 attacks * 0.67 hit * 0.83 wound * 1 save = 2.22 dead Marines

End Result: 5.22 dead Marines, 1.67 dead Scorpions


10 Banshees with Exarch+Executioner on the charge vs 10 Vanilla Tactical Marines with Sarge+Power Weapon+Pistol:
9 Banshees * 3 attacks each * 0.5 hit * 0.33 wound * 1 save = 4.5 dead Marines
1 Exarch * 3 attacks * 0.67 hit * 0.67 wound * 1 save = 1.33 dead Marines
3 Marines (about) * 1 attack each * 0.5 hit * 0.67 wound * 0.5 save = 0.5 dead Banshees
1 Sarge * 3 attacks * 0.5 hit * 0.67 wound * 1 save = 1 dead Banshee

End Result: 5.83 dead Marines, 1.5 dead Banshees

The Banshees are slightly better than Scorpions in this scenario, both in terms of damage inflicted and surviving. It's obviously quite the simplification. Banshees get a better chance at getting the charge because of fleet, but Scorpions have a better chance at arriving at full strength because of 3+ armor.

If you switch who has the charge: Scorpions kill 3.9 to Marines 2.9. Banshees kill 3.9 to Marines 3. So, it's really a close contest between the two of them.

But, if you change those Marines to an assault squad, or make them Terminators, or give them FnP, Banshees clearly come out on top.


Edit: I forgot the possibility of Counter-attack on the Exarch. If you give them that, even when they don't have the charge, Banshees get 5.83 kills to the Marines 2.33. Banshees are clearly better than Scorpions in that circumstance.

I fought seven close combat phases with ten guardsmen against eight scorpions, and the guardsmen wone!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or this, ten scorpions against three broadsides: six scorpions die while one broadside dies.

Has everyone forgotten the whole Eldar SOP? There's something for everything in the codex. Banshees are mutilated when they come up against hordes of something as mediocre as gaunts.

My ork friends rightly fear my squad of 10 scorpions because I know how to deploy them properly. If you have low armour the scorpions will kill you by forcing saves.

Each has its place and it's pointless to argue and *cough* in favour of one vs. another. Try running both and you'll see that they're meant to be used in tandem.

Think of it this way: There's always small squads of heavily armoured troops or tough troops of some kind in an army. That's where banshees come in.

There's either going to be hordes of infantry or transports in any given army also. Banshees can't glance armour. With S4 Scorpions can.

When I go against mechanized forces my scorpions become harassment troops because if they hit with their 4 attacks on the charge and get just a few 6's to damage, they can stop very dangerous transports from doing very much.

Eldar is synergy. The only way to win with them is to have specialty units engaging the right enemy... Unless you go with war walkers and 8 wave serpents so no one can ever catch you of course.