Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys. New player here.
I pretty much just have the Black Reach box, plus 10 extra boys and 5 lootas to bring each side to around ~600pts while I learn to play.

After viewing a number of battle reports etc, I see that quite often transports are used to get infantry into the thick of it faster. I assume this also helps protect them against being shot to pieces before they get into range.
What I'm wondering is is: why? Why is that a good tactic? What does it accomplish?

I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind it.
At first glance, I'm wondering why people are spending points on things that seem to blow up so often (maybe people only make battle reports of exploding rhinos, I dunno. lol).

Thanks for the insight.

Its a good tactic because most infantry can only move 6". Vehicles can move 12" normally (theres a few exceptions but 12 is the norm). So in 2 turns, a transport will be able to move a squad halfway across the table (if moving at top speed). Additionally, transports are often able to carry heavy weapons (rhinos can carry everything from heavy bolters to TL lascannons), so when (or rather if) the transports get their squad to the thick of the fight, they can provide supporting fire to the squad. Moreover, while a rhino is a pretty soft target as far as vehicles go, it is still fairly impervious to small arms fire. That same fire could shred a squad in the same amount of time. So instead of arriving at the fight with 4 of your 10 man tactical squad, you can arrive in half the time, with your full squad and at the very least, an extra storm bolter to shoot.

Well, for Marines, its 99.999945123% you have a transport for your troops (rhino, Drop Pod, razor ect). Rhinos are a bargain at 35 pts and they protect your expensive troops from small arms fire; there is no reason not to take them.

For Orks its a bit different. Boys are only 6pts compared to Marines 15-16pt cost, and come in bigger squads (up to 30). There is more variation in how you can deploy your boys. A few popular choices are green tide (as many boys as you can, just a wave of orks on the ground) Kan Wall (I have never seen it, but I assume its foot slogging boys with Killa Kans in front to provide a cover save) and Wagon spam (Boys and nobs in battlewagons). Trucks are another option, but they are pretty flimsy - you need a mek with a kustom force field for that cover save.

scubasteve04 makes a good point, it depends a lot on the army.

For marines, almost always a good idea. Rhinos are cheap. They only need to save two marines to pay for themselves. 12" garuanteed is better than 6+d6 for running. Rhinos make nice LOS blockers. Transports slow down assault troops because they have to blow the transport, then wait a turn, then get the guys instead of going straight to the guys. You'll never have to take morale checks in a transport. Almost all of the powerful psychic powers do not effect vehicles. Blast weapons become less effective since they usually hit one tank instead of 3 guys. And in general I like things that make parts of your opponents army useless, and vehicles make anything less than S4 completely useless.

A few things units on foot have over transports. Their movement can't be suppressed (typically). Their shooting can't be supressed (typically). More bodies is sometimes good, especially if they score. Lots of people use a lot of melta these days, depending on what your infantry are they make melta a waiste of points. Blown transports can pin the guys inside. Some special rules can only be done on foot. Units on the ground can fire at full capacity, most units in a transport are limited either by fire ports or the vehicles movement. And transports are sometimes an easy kill point.

It all just depends. But in general I would say spending the points on a transport makes the unit much more survivable and usefull than if those points had been spent on more guys.

PraetorDave wrote:Its a good tactic because most infantry can only move 6". Vehicles can move 12" normally (theres a few exceptions but 12 is the norm). So in 2 turns, a transport will be able to move a squad halfway across the table (if moving at top speed). Additionally, transports are often able to carry heavy weapons (rhinos can carry everything from heavy bolters to TL lascannons), so when (or rather if) the transports get their squad to the thick of the fight, they can provide supporting fire to the squad. Moreover, while a rhino is a pretty soft target as far as vehicles go, it is still fairly impervious to small arms fire. That same fire could shred a squad in the same amount of time. So instead of arriving at the fight with 4 of your 10 man tactical squad, you can arrive in half the time, with your full squad and at the very least, an extra storm bolter to shoot.

You mean Razorbacks can have heavy bolters and Lascannons? Rhinos can only have a storm bolter and a missile.

Because of the new running rules, running infantry forward or driving them in a tracked vehicle produces roughly the same overland movement rate.

The difference is that you can move 12" AND THEN SHOOT with transport-based armies, while foot armies have to use their shooting time in moving.

For this benefit of more mobile firepower, you have to pay more points (you often get more durability with all-foot that more than counters the lack of transports), and you have to pay in more KP to offer.

In the end, the two aren't fantastically different, and it comes down to personal style. Or, of course, if you're playing in a lot of tournaments where time limits make foot lists less viable.

@Ailaros: The two are fantastically different.

It's not 12 inch versus 6+d6, it's 12 inch + 2 inch Disembark + D6 run for squads with transport.

if you cant do math, its 12 inch potential for foot sloggers, and 20 inch potential for guys with rides.

12", plus 2" disembark, plus 12" rapid-fire/melta shots it how I'd think about it. You effectively have a 26" RF range, rather than the standard 18" (moving and shooting).

GalacticDefender wrote:

PraetorDave wrote:Its a good tactic because most infantry can only move 6". Vehicles can move 12" normally (theres a few exceptions but 12 is the norm). So in 2 turns, a transport will be able to move a squad halfway across the table (if moving at top speed). Additionally, transports are often able to carry heavy weapons (rhinos can carry everything from heavy bolters to TL lascannons), so when (or rather if) the transports get their squad to the thick of the fight, they can provide supporting fire to the squad. Moreover, while a rhino is a pretty soft target as far as vehicles go, it is still fairly impervious to small arms fire. That same fire could shred a squad in the same amount of time. So instead of arriving at the fight with 4 of your 10 man tactical squad, you can arrive in half the time, with your full squad and at the very least, an extra storm bolter to shoot.

You mean Razorbacks can have heavy bolters and Lascannons? Rhinos can only have a storm bolter and a missile.

Yes I know that. I felt I was being long winded as it was. I simplified it because they are basically (read BASICALLY) the same thing.

Except one has absolutly no weapons (practicly) and can hold 10 men, where as the other has heavy weapons and can hold 6 men? sounds a big difference to me

thelordoflife wrote:Except one has absolutly no weapons (practicly) and can hold 10 men, where as the other has heavy weapons and can hold 6 men? sounds a big difference to me

Are you delıberately beıng a douche?? Or do you just lıke startıng ınternet drama??

LOL thanks for the back up Jabbdo

Yuber wrote:It's not 12 inch versus 6+d6, it's 12 inch + 2 inch Disembark + D6 run for squads with transport.

Sure, but when are you EVER going to do this?

I guess if you drew second turn and you had a clairvoyant knowledge that the game would end at the bottom of your turn and your only scoring unit was 20" away from an obejctive and their transport was still alive, and... and...

Paying roughly 50 points for a single turn of up to +8" of movement seems silly to me.

Ailaros wrote:Paying roughly 50 points for a single turn of up to +8" of movement seems silly to me.

Depends what game your playing. I buy Chimeras to a) give me an extra two heavy weapons and b) provide my PIS with an AV12 bunker to fire out of. In my playstyle the transports don't really do much movement, if at all, and instead is there to hold my home objective alongside the artillery piece de jour.

If your using a Rhino you have, as already mentioned, a 20" 2D6 range on your meltaguns, or a 26" range on your rapid-firing plasma guns. What would otherwise take a walking unit 2-3 turns on average of movement to achiece, a Rhino can provide in one; not to mention the added protection from small arms fire/assaults for that rather expensive Marine unit.

L. Wrex

Ailaros wrote:

Yuber wrote:It's not 12 inch versus 6+d6, it's 12 inch + 2 inch Disembark + D6 run for squads with transport.

Sure, but when are you EVER going to do this?

I guess if you drew second turn and you had a clairvoyant knowledge that the game would end at the bottom of your turn and your only scoring unit was 20" away from an obejctive and their transport was still alive, and... and...

Paying roughly 50 points for a single turn of up to +8" of movement seems silly to me.

I don't know which universe do you exist in, but in mine, mechanized infantry dominates the meta game for obvious reasons. Then again, each of us have their own cup of coffee to enjoy.

Ailaros wrote:

Yuber wrote:It's not 12 inch versus 6+d6, it's 12 inch + 2 inch Disembark + D6 run for squads with transport.

Sure, but when are you EVER going to do this?

I guess if you drew second turn and you had a clairvoyant knowledge that the game would end at the bottom of your turn and your only scoring unit was 20" away from an obejctive and their transport was still alive, and... and...

Paying roughly 50 points for a single turn of up to +8" of movement seems silly to me.

Aılaros ıs rıght, we shouldnt take any transports because they dont really confer any notıcaeble advantages. Sure, they stop my marınes from gettıng mowed down by horrıble plasma death, but stıll, 35pts, meh, Im not sure ıf I wanna pay that much for somethıng that doubles my movement and makes me ımpervıous to small arms fıre.

Really dude? Have you any ıdea who the kıng of the current metagame ıs? Mechanızed ınfantry.

You can keep your marıne horde/footdar armıes. Enjoy losıng wıth them.

L2P

Jabbdo wrote:

Really dude? Have you any ıdea who the kıng of the current metagame ıs? Mechanızed ınfantry.

You can keep your marıne horde/footdar armıes. Enjoy losıng wıth em.

L2P

Sometimes I feel like Ailaros is on a disinformation campaign to keep the newbies down. For someone so outspoken on the forum I disagree with him a lot.

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:

Really dude? Have you any ıdea who the kıng of the current metagame ıs? Mechanızed ınfantry.

You can keep your marıne horde/footdar armıes. Enjoy losıng wıth em.

L2P

Sometimes I feel like Ailaros is on a disinformation campaign to keep the newbies down. For someone so outspoken on the forum I disagree with him a lot.

I swear to god I dunno what he is smoking. First he says that MLs are bad at popping transports, now this. I guess he is just trolling.

Transports are very good.


from your post it appears you have AobR, and an additional Tac squad and the 5 lootas.


for the space marines i would get a couple of Razorbacks. the Razorback, if you don't glue the heavy weapon down, can remove the heavy weapon and be a rhino. Running it as a razorback for a 10 man squad is ok as you should be Combat squadding your Tac marines into a 5 man squad with sergeant and Special weapon(flamer, plasma gun, melta gun) and a 5 man squad with the heavy weapon. the Sergeant's squad rides in the razorback while the other half sits in cover and blasts away with its heavy weapon.

the razorback gives the Squad an additional heavy weapon too. to start with for you i reccomend the Heavy bolter as it is the basic weapon for the Rback and won't bite into your points as much.

the next thing to get is a better HQ as Captains and Chapter masters are really sub-par. Chaplains are good when run with Assault marines or Assault terminators. Librarians are the best all around HQ as they bring the very good psychic powers to your army. Best when in TDA with a SS.

Re: Ailaros. If he's a troll, he's pretty dedicated. He's said the same thing the entire time I've been on these forums. Plus he's got a whole site. To me he has something that works for him, and he sticks to his guns. Most people think a little too much, but then again I've learned a few things from his posts.

Also, wasn't the OP asking for help, not a flame war?

I think the main benefit to transports is the protection, not necessarily the movement. I usually move 6" and fire the turrets. I usually only go for 12" if I'm near to being assaulted or I'm closing in for a kill. Of course, that's playing as guard, where I've usually got my enemies coming at me full speed anyway.

If I were trying to get into assault, I'd probably use Valkyries w/ Rocket Pods, and use SMF to drop of my payload right away instead of Chimeras.

For the OP: I've seen a lot of Rhinos in my day, and they usually do their job well of getting the marines close without getting hurt. Razors w/ Lascannons seem like an okay idea, but Lascannons are more of a HW platform than a transport to me. . .

ElCheezus wrote:Re: Ailaros. If he's a troll, he's pretty dedicated. He's said the same thing the entire time I've been on these forums. Plus he's got a whole site. To me he has something that works for him, and he sticks to his guns. Most people think a little too much, but then again I've learned a few things from his posts.

Also, wasn't the OP asking for help, not a flame war?

I think the main benefit to transports is the protection, not necessarily the movement. I usually move 6" and fire the turrets. I usually only go for 12" if I'm near to being assaulted or I'm closing in for a kill. Of course, that's playing as guard, where I've usually got my enemies coming at me full speed anyway.

If I were trying to get into assault, I'd probably use Valkyries w/ Rocket Pods, and use SMF to drop of my payload right away instead of Chimeras.

For the OP: I've seen a lot of Rhinos in my day, and they usually do their job well of getting the marines close without getting hurt. Razors w/ Lascannons seem like an okay idea, but Lascannons are more of a HW platform than a transport to me. . .

Ok, pardon me then. I dont mean to flame anyone. I think the ideas ailaros is giving probably works best for IG. But not everything plays like IG.

Flaming aside, I did mention the utility of mechanized armies. It's not that mech armies are TZEH MOST INKREDIBLE SUX EVAR, as some people seem to think my opinion of them are. My opinion is that mech armies are not the only viable option, as so many people appear to think.

Mech armies convey certain benefits for certain penalties. In the end, they are roughtly equal to their foot alternatives, if different in the particulars of their execution. I really don't see why stating this opinion always winds up being so contentious.

Other than it wounds the pride of people who have a deep spiritual faith in mechanized lists, to the point where they stop actually looking at things like facts and numbers before they decide to defend their faith to the death.

Yuber wrote:

Ok, pardon me then. I dont mean to flame anyone. I think the ideas ailaros is giving probably works best for IG. But not everything plays like IG.

But that's what I don't understand about him. I play IG and I think the Chimera is one of the best units in the book. 55pts of pure worth it.

The problem with internet forums is just because one person is doing something unconventional that works ok for them and their gaming group doesn't mean it will for most people in most groups.

For most armies, in most groups, transports are a big help. Its possible something different might work for the OP, but if your new try transports first, then mess around with more finese style playing later.

The problem with internet forums is that it's so easy to let mob rule groupthink push out otherwise reasonable alternatives to the mainstream.

I do think that the chimera is worth its points (actually, I think it's slightly undercosted). I do not, however, see transports as universally a "big help". They are situationally helpful (like in mech vet lists, for example), but I don't buy into the premise that any competent guard player needs to base their entire army around just one choice from their codex.

Transport armies are good, and if people want to play them, then they should. This does NOT mean that every other possible alternative is bad, and that no one should ever play them.

Ailaros wrote:Transport armies are good, and if people want to play them, then they should. This does NOT mean that every other possible alternative is bad, and that no one should ever play them.

Amen to that, I've got the same feeling as you do regarding the "go mech or go home" mood.

Flaming aside, I did mention the utility of mechanized armies. It's not that mech armies are TZEH MOST INKREDIBLE SUX EVAR, as some people seem to think my opinion of them are. My opinion is that mech armies are not the only viable option, as so many people appear to think.

Mech armies convey certain benefits for certain penalties. In the end, they are roughtly equal to their foot alternatives, if different in the particulars of their execution. I really don't see why stating this opinion always winds up being so contentious.

Other than it wounds the pride of people who have a deep spiritual faith in mechanized lists, to the point where they stop actually looking at things like facts and numbers before they decide to defend their faith to the death.

I can definitely see your point. There are some armies that can survive and field competitive lists that aren't mechanized. However, there is a reason that most lists are.

I would state that to say that there isn't a huge advantage when you consider the point cost would be incorrect. If Rhinos were 80 points then you might be on to something. But really, there is such a small trade off to a 35 point model that it is almost always worth it.

Ok lets stay in context here. We all know that there are different ways to play an army. Green tide would definitely foot slog, but you wont see other armies doing the same thing.

Now that that's covered, transports are basically used to shield your infantry from small arms fire as you advance to a certain part of the battlefield (crossing dead man's land). What makes transports boss does not merely revolve around moving infantry from 1 place to another.

-Transports provide mobile cover.
-Transports grant immunity to small arms fire and allow infantry inside to still score.
-Transports allow infantry to move effortlessly through cover albeit at a small risk of being immobilized (which is remedied by dozer blades)
-Transports protect infantry from getting assaulted. See those Assault terminators or TWC in assault range? thank god you took some transports.
-Transports present another AV value target. This causes target priority blur which is why mass razors work.
-Transports are portable fire support platforms (esp in the case IG)

With all the reasons listed above, I think I will swear by transports. I dont mean to impose my will to everyone, but hell, sure beats walking!

Ailaros wrote:This does NOT mean that every other possible alternative is bad, and that no one should ever play them.

I didn't say that, and if you read my original comments I gave a long list of disadvantages to taking transports. But you're fooling yourself if you say that a unit with a transport is not more flexible than a unit without. You can still sit on the ground and shoot if you want. But you also have a piece of movable terrain to support the unit. And in the case of Rhinos they are SO cheap for the flexibility why not take them. And in the case of chimeras you get so much for the points why not take them. I'm not as familiar with wave serpents or trucks but half of the transports in the game or no brainer choices.