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I know Vanguard have been discussed a little before, but BA vanguard seem to have a few extra points of interest. They still have heroic intervention, allowing them to deep strike and assault in the same turn. But they also have DoA, and it's quite easy to put furious charge on them too. You also have the option of arming every squad member with an infernus pistol, for maximum melty goodness.

I've heard people say they are over priced, but I'm seriously thinking about adding in a 10 man squad of these guys. The only question is, how to tool them up and what targets to go for.

My guilty pleasure is thinking about a 10 man death star with TH/SS and JP deep striking in with DoA and being able to assault straight away.

Deep striking a Sanguinary Priest near by, and run him close enough to cast Furious Charge and FNP... Well I'd have no points left but it would be quite awesome.

There is also the option of infenus pistols and putting them on melta duty... though even with DoA they wouldn't have much room for error on deep strike, given the short range.

Or... I could just give them a couple of power weapons and drop them on a bunch of MEQs.

Any thoughts?

I think a squad with 2-3 PF for DS assaults is good. Let them tie up a unit you need to kill quickly

The best way to use them is with a nearby Sang priest and lightning claws abound. Try to charge at least 2 units, if not 3 at the same time.

I thought Vanguard were missing the Descent of Angels rule.

They are not listed as having DoA because the basic squad is bought as infantry (not jump infantry). This is true for all BA that are not listed as Jump Infantry by default. If you upgrade them with Jump Packs then they become jump infantry and gain DoA, as described under the rules for Jump Packs in the BA codex.

Are you sure that rule doesn't say "Blood Angels units with this rule" or something to that effect?

It says:

"In addition, a blood angel model with a jump pack has the Decent of Angels special rule"

I think it is quite clear how it works. All units that come with jump packs as standard are listed as having DoA, and all units that come as just infantry are missing it.

The Death Company are missing DoA because they come as infantry. Yet Lemartes who is an upgrade character for their squad comes with a jump pack as standard, and he does have DoA. It wouldn't make sense if only Lemartes had DoA and the rest of his squad (which he can't leave) don't. When they are upgraded with Jump Packs they also get DoA too.

I guess it is a bit like how they include the extra attack in the profile for assault squads. They included DoA for all jump infantry, but they didn't include it for units bought as infantry, because those units don't have DoA unless you buy them jump packs.

Not sure I'd bother with the Infernus Pistols... With DoA and beacons I've always had mine land in assault range, and they never leave it really... Meltas and IP's I tend to put in the regular Assault squads with the SP's (to get the furious charge, etc...)... A few Power Fists, TH's, and the rest with Power Weapons for me, 10 man squad to combat squad up as needed...

Yeah I was dubious about Infernus pistols. They are an interesting option for working more meltas into the army, since you could in theory drop 5 infernus pistols next to a land raider... But the infurnus pistol has such a short range that even with DoA you're not guaranteed to be in range. And it kind of wastes their Heroic Intervention if they shoot instead of assault.

I have also been thinking about beacons. I'm wondering if scout bikes might be the best way to deploy them...

Any thoughts on storm shields for vanguard? I know they are super expensive, but considering it would make them almost like terminators with jump packs... the price doesn't seem bad compared to assault terminators, which are a bit slow to use more than once.

You could drop a Sternguard unit in with a beacon on the Drop Pod.

5x melta on said Land Raider with 5x plazma on the termies inside will ruin anyones day, then send your VV to bail out the Sternguard next turn, or to hold up another unit.

Smarteye wrote:5x melta on said Land Raider with 5x plazma on the termies inside will ruin anyones day

Erm, actually they can't split fire, and if you're talking about firing the VV & SG

--edited stupidity out--

Anyways, Vanguard are nice. I've taken a liking to them lately, and I run a unit of 8 with 4 of them armed with Infernus Pistols AND Power Weapons. There's nothing they can't handle, except maybe 30 angry Orks. Target Priority is essential for them, and they can easily make their kill-points worth (or wipe a scoring/contesting unit off of an objective).

Yes, Decent of Angels + Heroic Intervention = AMAZING!

If you shoot then you can't use Heroic Intervention. Maybe one melter pistol as an insurance policy. I run a squad of five with one power fist and four power weapons. They are good for taking out units like Devs or charging vehicles that didn't move.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:If you shoot then you can't use Heroic Intervention.

Oops! Like I said, I just started using the Vanguard Vets!

No problem. It's all good.

dbgoldberg323 wrote:

Smarteye wrote:5x melta on said Land Raider with 5x plazma on the termies inside will ruin anyones day

Erm, actually they can't split fire, and if you're talking about firing the VV & SG

No, but the 10 man Squad Combat squads on deployment out of the pod... Giving you 2 5 man squads to hopefully pop the LR and then hit the troops piling out of the wreck...

pchappel wrote: No, but the 10 man Squad Combat squads on deployment out of the pod... Giving you 2 5 man squads to hopefully pop the LR and then hit the troops piling out of the wreck...

Very true, though now we're discussing 10 combi weapons (50 extra points), though that almost guarantees 450+ points of dead Termies+Land Raider....

hmm...

dbgoldberg323 wrote:

BloodThirSTAR wrote:If you shoot then you can't use Heroic Intervention.

Oops! Like I said, I just started using the Vanguard Vets!

That's backwards. The restriction is that if you declare heroic intervention, which you have to do before the rolling the scatter die, you cannot shoot. So you can't intend to assault using HI and then choose to shoot if you scatter out of assault range.

SmackCakes wrote:My guilty pleasure is thinking about a 10 man death star with TH/SS and JP deep striking in with DoA and being able to assault straight away.

There's a guy at my FLGS who runs a 10-man squad that way. It's 800 points for those guys. I haven't talked to him in depth about how they do, but he's used them more than once.

Arschbombe wrote:That's backwards. The restriction is that if you declare heroic intervention, which you have to do before the rolling the scatter die, you cannot shoot. So you can't intend to assault using HI and then choose to shoot if you scatter out of assault range.

Good to know.

Arschbombe wrote:There's a guy at my FLGS who runs a 10-man squad that way. It's 800 points for those guys. I haven't talked to him in depth about how they do, but he's used them more than once.

Wow. That's a lot of points! Sounds nasty though, 3+/3++, S8 Power Weapon each for 30 attacks on the charge (without buffs)! Ouch!

Seeing you can combat squad them 10 full could work well. That is an advantage over Honor Guard.

infernus pistols are good even if you deep strike as they give you anti-tank or MEQ after the initial assault.


maybe give a couple of them THs and Infernus pistols and the rest have an assortment of Power weapons/LCs.

What would you pair them with? Use them to distract the enemy from the rest of your force? Deep strike the rest of your army just 'cause? Or what?

Ive used them to tie up/take out one target when they drop in. But lately ive moved back to an honor guard for the priest. It's great when your drop goes perfectly and you kill off 3/4ths of the squad and cant get shot next turn. Got to make sure you can support them if they need it though

I would hold them in reserve and let the rest of the army advance(Jump packs and fast rhinos) then when they do come in they will have support.